Posts
66
Joined
7/9/2013
Location
Salem, OH
US
Edited Date/Time
6/14/2017 11:15am
Although it has been discussed and debated for years, and seems to pop up every season, I actually took an informal, but in depth, look at the AMA area qualifiers to see if C class sandbagging is as common and widespread as made out to be.
What prompted this was an observation at an area qualifier for the Loretta Lynn’s National Championship where an A-class rider signed up to race and qualify in the 450C class. The rider was quickly recognized by a fellow racer and after speaking with the track referee, was disqualified for the day.
While looking at results after this same area qualifier I did a quick Google search of the rider that finished first in two C classes. This rider was from Canada and I easily had found out he raced in 250B and 450B classes in Canada a total of thirty times last year (winning two thirds of those races). I spoke with the AMA and after they looked at his results deemed that he was ineligible to race C class. Their statement was that once you race a higher class race in the same style of competition, regardless of location, that is where you stay.
Moving on, I referenced the AMA’s 2016 B class Advancement list that is issued at the end of every season to alert what riders are being moved from C to B class because of either participation in the national or because their Rider Performance Value (RPV) was high enough to bump them to the next level of competition.
What I found was that there were a total number of nineteen riders who had qualified in one or more C classes at one or more area qualifiers who should have been racing B class. Their names were either on the AMA’s advancement list, last revised in December, or they had raced in at least one B class race last year.
Some of these riders raced in only one area qualifier, while others raced in up to four qualifiers trying to secure a qualifying position to advance to regionals. A few still did not qualify in some of their classes, while others swept whatever classes they raced.
The AMA also has a “Rider Search” function as part of their website. It is here that you can look up racers who have competed in AMA events and is also where the AMA pulls the information to assign the riders’ RPV number. It was here that I found that seventeen of the nineteen advanced riders who were racing C classes, had appealed their B class advancement and had it approved by the AMA.
According to the AMA, the appeal process consists of paying a $50 fee, filling out a form, and having a review by a three member panel. One of the things they take into consideration is how many years the rider has been racing in C classes, and of the appeals granted, most riders have been racing C for three to five years.
Once the AMA makes their ruling on an appeal it is final, and may not be appealed again. Of interesting note is the following taken from the AMA completion rulebook regarding rider classification appeal:
e. Riders who wish to contest placement, are [b]only those who are considered completely noncompetitive
in the class they are leaving and won’t dominate the class in which they are returning.
h. The AMA Appeal Board reserves the authority to re-evaluate and overturn an advancement/
classification appeal decision based upon new information and / or documented race results
within six months of the Appeal Board’s decision.[/b]
On the surface it seems the advancement system is in place to serve riders who enjoy racing and occasionally finishing in a top spot, but who may not be of the talent required to make it to the national. However, that does not seem to be the case and in complete opposition to section “e” regarding noncompetive riders when some of these approved appeal riders have swept their four areas qualifier classes with finishes of first place in each. In reality, all seventeen riders who had their advancements repealed by the AMA qualified in the area qualifiers to advance to regionals. It makes you wonder what documentation they included in their appeals process that made the AMA believe that they were “noncompetitive” in their class.
The AMA touts that they have a system in place to ensure that competition is fair in their sanctioned races and the road to Loretta’s. You might even remember an article they published at the beginning of this year titled “A is A, B is B and C is C” reiterating the monitoring of rider classification. The only part that seemed to be left out of that article is that if you didn’t like your classification, $50 could buy the one you want. The AMA’s 2016 Advancement list had a total of 99 riders who were advanced to B class because the RPV number exceeded the allowable limit to stay in C class. Of this total, 25 riders appealed and were approved to continue racing C class.
Old-timers will tell you it was a bit of an honor to receive word from the AMA that you were being bumped up a class because of your riding abilities. Many argue that C classes should not be offered at the national. I can see the argument for that, but at the same time you want to build the sport and a sure way to do that is including the C classes at the national.
Bottom line, and everyone should be willing to admit it, it all comes down to money. Whether you are MX Sports requiring the “Qualifying Fee” at races, E-Score bumping up the price of transponders at regionals, the RV site raffle at the national, or the dad driving his kid to four area qualifiers across the country just trying to get into one spot.
In summary, it seems to be that everything that has been repeated each season regarding “sandbagging” appears to have merit, and looks to be actually be promoted by AMA.
What prompted this was an observation at an area qualifier for the Loretta Lynn’s National Championship where an A-class rider signed up to race and qualify in the 450C class. The rider was quickly recognized by a fellow racer and after speaking with the track referee, was disqualified for the day.
While looking at results after this same area qualifier I did a quick Google search of the rider that finished first in two C classes. This rider was from Canada and I easily had found out he raced in 250B and 450B classes in Canada a total of thirty times last year (winning two thirds of those races). I spoke with the AMA and after they looked at his results deemed that he was ineligible to race C class. Their statement was that once you race a higher class race in the same style of competition, regardless of location, that is where you stay.
Moving on, I referenced the AMA’s 2016 B class Advancement list that is issued at the end of every season to alert what riders are being moved from C to B class because of either participation in the national or because their Rider Performance Value (RPV) was high enough to bump them to the next level of competition.
What I found was that there were a total number of nineteen riders who had qualified in one or more C classes at one or more area qualifiers who should have been racing B class. Their names were either on the AMA’s advancement list, last revised in December, or they had raced in at least one B class race last year.
Some of these riders raced in only one area qualifier, while others raced in up to four qualifiers trying to secure a qualifying position to advance to regionals. A few still did not qualify in some of their classes, while others swept whatever classes they raced.
The AMA also has a “Rider Search” function as part of their website. It is here that you can look up racers who have competed in AMA events and is also where the AMA pulls the information to assign the riders’ RPV number. It was here that I found that seventeen of the nineteen advanced riders who were racing C classes, had appealed their B class advancement and had it approved by the AMA.
According to the AMA, the appeal process consists of paying a $50 fee, filling out a form, and having a review by a three member panel. One of the things they take into consideration is how many years the rider has been racing in C classes, and of the appeals granted, most riders have been racing C for three to five years.
Once the AMA makes their ruling on an appeal it is final, and may not be appealed again. Of interesting note is the following taken from the AMA completion rulebook regarding rider classification appeal:
e. Riders who wish to contest placement, are [b]only those who are considered completely noncompetitive
in the class they are leaving and won’t dominate the class in which they are returning.
h. The AMA Appeal Board reserves the authority to re-evaluate and overturn an advancement/
classification appeal decision based upon new information and / or documented race results
within six months of the Appeal Board’s decision.[/b]
On the surface it seems the advancement system is in place to serve riders who enjoy racing and occasionally finishing in a top spot, but who may not be of the talent required to make it to the national. However, that does not seem to be the case and in complete opposition to section “e” regarding noncompetive riders when some of these approved appeal riders have swept their four areas qualifier classes with finishes of first place in each. In reality, all seventeen riders who had their advancements repealed by the AMA qualified in the area qualifiers to advance to regionals. It makes you wonder what documentation they included in their appeals process that made the AMA believe that they were “noncompetitive” in their class.
The AMA touts that they have a system in place to ensure that competition is fair in their sanctioned races and the road to Loretta’s. You might even remember an article they published at the beginning of this year titled “A is A, B is B and C is C” reiterating the monitoring of rider classification. The only part that seemed to be left out of that article is that if you didn’t like your classification, $50 could buy the one you want. The AMA’s 2016 Advancement list had a total of 99 riders who were advanced to B class because the RPV number exceeded the allowable limit to stay in C class. Of this total, 25 riders appealed and were approved to continue racing C class.
Old-timers will tell you it was a bit of an honor to receive word from the AMA that you were being bumped up a class because of your riding abilities. Many argue that C classes should not be offered at the national. I can see the argument for that, but at the same time you want to build the sport and a sure way to do that is including the C classes at the national.
Bottom line, and everyone should be willing to admit it, it all comes down to money. Whether you are MX Sports requiring the “Qualifying Fee” at races, E-Score bumping up the price of transponders at regionals, the RV site raffle at the national, or the dad driving his kid to four area qualifiers across the country just trying to get into one spot.
In summary, it seems to be that everything that has been repeated each season regarding “sandbagging” appears to have merit, and looks to be actually be promoted by AMA.
Age classes, fine , capacity classes, fine, but fighting to stay down a class so you can win... not fine.
Participation trophys for all ??
The Shop
I believe there is a rule that if you finish top 5 at Loretta's in the C class, you aren't eligible to race C again. How is it not the top 20, or even the entire class? I would think that if you qualify as the top 40 C riders in the country, there is no way you can be considered a novice the following year. On top of that, on average, the top 40 riders would be in the top 2 or 3 locally. The RPV should reflect that unless of course, they are finding ways to skirt the system.
Thanks for the post. I expect nothing to change though. It's all about who is willing to pay.
Just teasing of course, I actually agree with everything you posted.
I think it's a bunch of bs that the AMA grants these appeals. Once you're B you're B, once you're A you're A.
I think Loretta's is a great and super fun experience, but I am starting to agree with those who have been claiming that it's been detrimental to local racing, the roots of the sport.
Stop putting so much emphasis on this race, even if you make it there you're not going to "make it". All these kids are big dreamers but one day reality will hit
The problem, as the OP stated, is that some of these C and B class riders seem to make a career out of this. They are winning their motos at these qualifiers, and have done so multiple years in a row. The AMA should be forcing these guys to move up. Period.
In my district I do pretty well in C class most of the time. When it comes to the larger events like the Baja Brawl the top 5 guys are lapping the track like 15-20 seconds faster than me.
One guy in particular who I've raced with a few times who typically lays waste to the field showed up to more than a few races and rode around in last just to drop his RPV so he didn't get bumped and could have another try at Lorettas in the C class.
Rock on!
Regarding dropping down, if promotion was equal, then no one would need to drop down. If you are a B at the local level but C at a national level, then you're going to get waxed. Maybe don't drive out then?
I'm just throwing an idea out there. I'm sure this might have its own share of flaws, but maybe it's something we can discuss.
Area qualifiers went well, and we will know the outcome at regionals soon.
My son made the decision before this season began that he would self-advance to B class regardless of what happened at regionals, and like the old-timers, will find a small sense of pride in being able to say he is a B rider. After all, this is supposed to be just for fun, except for maybe the .01 percentile that will actually make a living out of it.
Pit Row
Anyways, they finally moved up to B and raced for a little bit, finishing in the top 5-10 usually. Shortly after, they stopped racing completely. There was a rumor that their families had told the promoters that if they were moved up to B, they would take their money elsewhere and that's why they were allowed to stay C for so long. I can't say for sure that it actually went down that way, but I also wouldn't doubt it.
who gives a fukin fuk about the c class thats the class you better get out of or your not a racer period
That would increase revenue and make everyone happy.
Sarcasm off.
When you say you race novice you could be pretty fast or pretty slow... everyone n led if you are legit b you are getting around the track pretty good. You have advanced past average
The other 2 choices, sign up in the women's or go ahead and sign up for the A Class since nobody is in that class, they all dropped down!
Post a reply to: An Informal Look at AMA C Class (updated page 3)