Forum QNA: 2018 Vital MX 450 Shootout

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Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 9/15/2017 3:20pm
9/15/2017 3:20pm
Kenny Lingus wrote:
Do you have any experience with the longer linkage pull rods for the CRF?
ML512 wrote:
Nope, sorry.
Better get on it you Husky hating slacker.Wink Just kidding. Great job on the shootout. Heard good reviews on the longer pull rods and was wondering if anyone had experimented with them on the 18.
New to -4S-Joe 9/15/2017 5:30pm
9/15/2017 5:30pm
How much higher would the Suzuki have rated with a better shock? Has Suzuki gotten rid of the harshness in the chassis? How hard is the Suzuki to start ?
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grunkster 9/15/2017 5:33pm
9/15/2017 5:33pm
Manny....some other +50 friends with KTM/husky have tried the new crf (17/18) and more than one has said the chassis is so ridged it just beats us oldies up...can you give any insight to this? The last aluminum frame I have ridden was my 14 yz250f, and I had no ridgidity issue. Thinking of grabbing a bargain priced leftover 17 crf450....have heard they are the most 250'esque...agreed?
ML512
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ML512 9/15/2017 6:10pm
9/15/2017 6:10pm
New to -4S-Joe wrote:
How much higher would the Suzuki have rated with a better shock? Has Suzuki gotten rid of the harshness in the chassis? How hard is the...
How much higher would the Suzuki have rated with a better shock? Has Suzuki gotten rid of the harshness in the chassis? How hard is the Suzuki to start ?
On my list, maybe one higher...I wouldn't have ranked it better than the Yamaha without some more engine improvements too. But that's me.

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/15/2017 6:29pm
9/15/2017 6:29pm
grunkster wrote:
Manny....some other +50 friends with KTM/husky have tried the new crf (17/18) and more than one has said the chassis is so ridged it just beats...
Manny....some other +50 friends with KTM/husky have tried the new crf (17/18) and more than one has said the chassis is so ridged it just beats us oldies up...can you give any insight to this? The last aluminum frame I have ridden was my 14 yz250f, and I had no ridgidity issue. Thinking of grabbing a bargain priced leftover 17 crf450....have heard they are the most 250'esque...agreed?
You may have seen where I'm CONSTANTLY telling anyone who'll listen...

If you want an Aluminum framed 450 -AND- you want comfort...and maybe you want it for more than just track riding? GET A '17 RX! They're quite plush and there's NOTHING "harsh" about it. The new CRF-R doesn't have ANY chassis problems in my book, I was just a little annoyed that it felt a little heavy/slow responding in slow technical sections...but, let's be fair...

I'd just gotten off of the FC & the SX-F.

As Michael can confirm, I'm riding the heck out of a '17 RMZ at the moment. It's an awesome handling bike and EVEN THE FORKS WORK when you get the air-pressure(s) right. The shock on the '17 RMZ is one of the best production Showas...EVER. The engine makes a ton of torque and it's so dependable (read: CHEAP TO KEEP!) that it makes other brands look bad. Why did I take the time to tell you that...? You can get one for $6K and it's a great bike.
grunkster
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grunkster 9/15/2017 7:15pm
9/15/2017 7:15pm
No interest in the zook. How about rx upper motor mounts on the 17 R?
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/15/2017 7:20pm
9/15/2017 7:20pm
grunkster wrote:
No interest in the zook. How about rx upper motor mounts on the 17 R?
The '18 R has mounts that are a little more like the RX. If your get a '17 R, yes...put RX hangers on it.
Ted722
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Ted722 9/15/2017 8:52pm
9/15/2017 8:52pm
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You ranking the largely "unchanged" KXF 7th (last year) to 3rd this year speaks volumes on settings and rider confidence.

Sure, there's the "pick a color" folks, but all of these bikes have their own traits and (if you're honest) you should be able to find a bike that matches. Personally? The RMZ and FC push my buttons (no pun intended). Smile

Still going through the shootout, but I just wanted to get that out there.
DAG
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DAG 9/16/2017 4:22am
9/16/2017 4:22am
Thank you for the shootout and all the insight. There were some great points for all the bikes and logical conclusions for the rankings.

I would like to suggest some bigger guys for future tests. I have an average rider weight of 167.5 lbs for the shoot out. I would contend this is pretty light for a 450 and definitly for your readers based off the comments I see on after hour activities!

I'm still going YZ if they ever arrive on the east coast as I think being 6'1" and 220 it will fit me best.
Autismmx110
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Autismmx110 9/16/2017 8:53am
9/16/2017 8:53am
I'm a 220 pound C to back of the pack B rider ish what 450 would be good for me to set the sag on and go out and ride I'm looking for something that corners well and doesn't have a rip your hands off response thinking Honda or Suzuki coming off a 16 KX 250f and I really don't like the kx 450
ML512
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ML512 9/16/2017 9:45am
9/16/2017 9:45am
Autismmx110 wrote:
I'm a 220 pound C to back of the pack B rider ish what 450 would be good for me to set the sag on and...
I'm a 220 pound C to back of the pack B rider ish what 450 would be good for me to set the sag on and go out and ride I'm looking for something that corners well and doesn't have a rip your hands off response thinking Honda or Suzuki coming off a 16 KX 250f and I really don't like the kx 450
At 220, you're quite a bit above the weight any of these bikes are sprung for and getting proper sag without over-compressing the rear spring isn't possible with any of the bikes really.

Due to the ease of adjustment with the AER48 air fork though, the KTM or Husky would be the best for you to dial in off the showroom floor.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/16/2017 10:46am
9/16/2017 10:46am
Ted722 wrote:
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You...
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You ranking the largely "unchanged" KXF 7th (last year) to 3rd this year speaks volumes on settings and rider confidence.

Sure, there's the "pick a color" folks, but all of these bikes have their own traits and (if you're honest) you should be able to find a bike that matches. Personally? The RMZ and FC push my buttons (no pun intended). Smile

Still going through the shootout, but I just wanted to get that out there.
Thanks!

Btw, BOTH of these bikes...hell...ALL of the bikes were superb. At the end of the day we really are "nit-picking". Glad you noticed "The Resurrection of Team Green"! I was sooooooo bummed to see how slow I was and how my confidence was GONE on the '17 KXF. The way the '18 worked soooooo much better is a testament to the work done by the riders and TECH's at KMC, USA.

The New Zook is getting dumped on when the only real problem is we didn't have a good grip on how to make the new shock work and...honestly...neither did the Suzuki folks...yet. That shock should turnout to be a suspension tuners dream...we'll find out soon enough.

As for you and the Zook or the FC...? I'd get whichever one has the best dealer and/or the brand you can get the best support with. The Zook has waaaaaay more "bottom"...the Hooska has waaaaaay more "top". The Zook is All New. The Hooska is in it's "Swan Song" year. Both of those situations has it's good and bad points.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing...
Ted722
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Ted722 9/16/2017 11:29am
9/16/2017 11:29am
Ted722 wrote:
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You...
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You ranking the largely "unchanged" KXF 7th (last year) to 3rd this year speaks volumes on settings and rider confidence.

Sure, there's the "pick a color" folks, but all of these bikes have their own traits and (if you're honest) you should be able to find a bike that matches. Personally? The RMZ and FC push my buttons (no pun intended). Smile

Still going through the shootout, but I just wanted to get that out there.
TeamGreen wrote:
Thanks! Btw, BOTH of these bikes...hell...ALL of the bikes were superb. At the end of the day we really are "nit-picking". Glad you noticed "The Resurrection...
Thanks!

Btw, BOTH of these bikes...hell...ALL of the bikes were superb. At the end of the day we really are "nit-picking". Glad you noticed "The Resurrection of Team Green"! I was sooooooo bummed to see how slow I was and how my confidence was GONE on the '17 KXF. The way the '18 worked soooooo much better is a testament to the work done by the riders and TECH's at KMC, USA.

The New Zook is getting dumped on when the only real problem is we didn't have a good grip on how to make the new shock work and...honestly...neither did the Suzuki folks...yet. That shock should turnout to be a suspension tuners dream...we'll find out soon enough.

As for you and the Zook or the FC...? I'd get whichever one has the best dealer and/or the brand you can get the best support with. The Zook has waaaaaay more "bottom"...the Hooska has waaaaaay more "top". The Zook is All New. The Hooska is in it's "Swan Song" year. Both of those situations has it's good and bad points.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing...
The stars are aligning and I've always purchased a new bike when I've reached another decade. Turning 50 in Feb. next year...so I got that going for me! Smile A lot of great choices these days.
mikec265
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mikec265 9/16/2017 1:15pm
9/16/2017 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2017 1:16pm
So the KTM and Husky like inside lines now.
How much effort does it take to make them lean over in the turns compared to a Suzuki?

I have been a hardcore RM/RMZ guy for 16 years because of the turning ability. Do any of the new bikes turn enough like a Suzuki to make a guy like me happy to switch?

At 6ft 1in 215 I keep my bikes stock except bars, seats, spring rates, and valving.
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MXTompkins44 9/16/2017 3:29pm
9/16/2017 3:29pm
Hey ML512! If the battery dies on the Yamaha, how do you start it?

I'm thinking of buying this bike and I'd like to know this before I buy it? Thank you!
ML512
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ML512 9/16/2017 4:29pm
9/16/2017 4:29pm
MXTompkins44 wrote:
Hey ML512! If the battery dies on the Yamaha, how do you start it? I'm thinking of buying this bike and I'd like to know this...
Hey ML512! If the battery dies on the Yamaha, how do you start it?

I'm thinking of buying this bike and I'd like to know this before I buy it? Thank you!
Bump start it...
tmauto769
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tmauto769 9/16/2017 4:39pm
9/16/2017 4:39pm
JWACK wrote:
If I buy a "get wifi com 2 programmer for my 18 Crf do I need to purchase a software license to use the dang thing??
no you don't. but you do have to leave the bike running while you re-map it. which sucks. Better have some fans blowing on the radiators.
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TeamGreen 9/16/2017 4:44pm
9/16/2017 4:44pm
Ted722 wrote:
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You...
Manny, I liked your insight on the KXF and RMZ and comparing to their previous model year. It makes sense and you explained it well. You ranking the largely "unchanged" KXF 7th (last year) to 3rd this year speaks volumes on settings and rider confidence.

Sure, there's the "pick a color" folks, but all of these bikes have their own traits and (if you're honest) you should be able to find a bike that matches. Personally? The RMZ and FC push my buttons (no pun intended). Smile

Still going through the shootout, but I just wanted to get that out there.
TeamGreen wrote:
Thanks! Btw, BOTH of these bikes...hell...ALL of the bikes were superb. At the end of the day we really are "nit-picking". Glad you noticed "The Resurrection...
Thanks!

Btw, BOTH of these bikes...hell...ALL of the bikes were superb. At the end of the day we really are "nit-picking". Glad you noticed "The Resurrection of Team Green"! I was sooooooo bummed to see how slow I was and how my confidence was GONE on the '17 KXF. The way the '18 worked soooooo much better is a testament to the work done by the riders and TECH's at KMC, USA.

The New Zook is getting dumped on when the only real problem is we didn't have a good grip on how to make the new shock work and...honestly...neither did the Suzuki folks...yet. That shock should turnout to be a suspension tuners dream...we'll find out soon enough.

As for you and the Zook or the FC...? I'd get whichever one has the best dealer and/or the brand you can get the best support with. The Zook has waaaaaay more "bottom"...the Hooska has waaaaaay more "top". The Zook is All New. The Hooska is in it's "Swan Song" year. Both of those situations has it's good and bad points.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing...
Ted722 wrote:
The stars are aligning and I've always purchased a new bike when I've reached another decade. Turning 50 in Feb. next year...so I got that going...
The stars are aligning and I've always purchased a new bike when I've reached another decade. Turning 50 in Feb. next year...so I got that going for me! Smile A lot of great choices these days.
If you have any problems lining up a bike...drop me a pm (I think you have my e-mail?) and I'll help you find what you're looking for.

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/16/2017 4:46pm
9/16/2017 4:46pm
MXTompkins44 wrote:
Hey ML512! If the battery dies on the Yamaha, how do you start it? I'm thinking of buying this bike and I'd like to know this...
Hey ML512! If the battery dies on the Yamaha, how do you start it?

I'm thinking of buying this bike and I'd like to know this before I buy it? Thank you!
Same for the Honda, Husky and KTM!
Jolson519 9/16/2017 4:50pm
9/16/2017 4:50pm
ML512 wrote:
Working on bringing laptimes in a better fashion. Due to the times of day the riders ride on different tracks, having multiple tracks, and guys cutting...
Working on bringing laptimes in a better fashion. Due to the times of day the riders ride on different tracks, having multiple tracks, and guys cutting the tracks to make changes (feedback comes before anything else) it makes the numbers hard to use as definite results. It's useful for the guys to scan over, but we haven't gotten to the point I want to put a bunch of stock in them. I have an idea for the 250F Shootout where we might dedicate a day to gathering laptime data...I'm working on ideas.

As for bars and springs, I personally don't believe in either. We test them stock off the floor. In the case of the Yamaha, the bar mounts are taller than '17, not the bars. Lastly, there would be an issue as to what bar we'd use because of flex characteristics.

Springs also create a problem because they take so long to change out just for one dude. If you saw how our riding day schedule goes, this would be impossible to pull off...secondly, the amount of springs we'd need is insane, and riders sometimes prefer softer or heavier springs in feel. Meaning we'd have to do a TON of swapping around.

I respect the ideas, just giving back the responses on why we haven't attempted those in our test.
Dedicating a day for lap times sounds like a great idea. Could be difficult because of track conditions changing throughout the day...
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MXTompkins44 9/16/2017 6:09pm
9/16/2017 6:09pm
DAG wrote:
Thank you for the shootout and all the insight. There were some great points for all the bikes and logical conclusions for the rankings. I would...
Thank you for the shootout and all the insight. There were some great points for all the bikes and logical conclusions for the rankings.

I would like to suggest some bigger guys for future tests. I have an average rider weight of 167.5 lbs for the shoot out. I would contend this is pretty light for a 450 and definitly for your readers based off the comments I see on after hour activities!

I'm still going YZ if they ever arrive on the east coast as I think being 6'1" and 220 it will fit me best.
Going Yamaha for same reason!
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JWACK 9/16/2017 8:15pm
9/16/2017 8:15pm
JWACK wrote:
If I buy a "get wifi com 2 programmer for my 18 Crf do I need to purchase a software license to use the dang thing??
tmauto769 wrote:
no you don't. but you do have to leave the bike running while you re-map it. which sucks. Better have some fans blowing on the radiators.
Thank you for the info!
ML512
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ML512 9/16/2017 8:16pm
9/16/2017 8:16pm
Jolson519 wrote:
Dedicating a day for lap times sounds like a great idea. Could be difficult because of track conditions changing throughout the day...
That's exactly the problem now, but we spread out the sessions more to focus on changes and feedback...If we set up quick sprints and swap bikes fast enough, we might be able to make it work...I'm going to think about it for a bit...
1HRCrider
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1HRCrider 9/17/2017 2:00am
9/17/2017 2:00am
I thought this was a great shootout, and the way it was put together. Very informative and right to the point. Also glad the Honda came out on top since I own one Smile
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swtwtwtw 9/17/2017 2:25am
9/17/2017 2:25am
Jolson519 wrote:
Dedicating a day for lap times sounds like a great idea. Could be difficult because of track conditions changing throughout the day...
ML512 wrote:
That's exactly the problem now, but we spread out the sessions more to focus on changes and feedback...If we set up quick sprints and swap bikes...
That's exactly the problem now, but we spread out the sessions more to focus on changes and feedback...If we set up quick sprints and swap bikes fast enough, we might be able to make it work...I'm going to think about it for a bit...
In my opinion Sunrise Mx is ideal for a laptimes track. The shootout is a good read. A plus to add would be the baseline suspension settings used and static sags for us guys who spend a lot of time fiddling with clickers to get the best possible stock setup.
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Joko 9/17/2017 8:03am
9/17/2017 8:03am
Why were the bikes numbered 40-45, and what determined the sequence of numbering for each brand?
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H4L 9/17/2017 9:35am
9/17/2017 9:35am
What are the spring rates on the 18 CRF450r ?
ML512
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ML512 9/17/2017 9:35am
9/17/2017 9:35am
Joko wrote:
Why were the bikes numbered 40-45, and what determined the sequence of numbering for each brand?
40-45 seems relatable to 450s. I put Husky on one end and Yamaha on the other because they were the only two bikes that had to use blue stands, so I wanted them separated. Other than that, I just randomly assigned numbers.
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JWACK 9/17/2017 9:39am
9/17/2017 9:39am
mikec265 wrote:
So the KTM and Husky like inside lines now. How much effort does it take to make them lean over in the turns compared to a...
So the KTM and Husky like inside lines now.
How much effort does it take to make them lean over in the turns compared to a Suzuki?

I have been a hardcore RM/RMZ guy for 16 years because of the turning ability. Do any of the new bikes turn enough like a Suzuki to make a guy like me happy to switch?

At 6ft 1in 215 I keep my bikes stock except bars, seats, spring rates, and valving.
I'm a Suzuki handling fan myself. I tried to buy an 18 rmz but ended up walking out of the dealership after waiting an hour for a price. They never called back either. Salesman must make too much money I guess.! Anyways I'm coming off a 16 ktm and to answer your question, no they don't turn like a Suzuki. They turn good but not that good! I ended up with the 18 Honda and while I don't think it has the cut in that a Suzuki has, it has excellent front-end "feel" and goes where you look very easy.
It does not suck one bit.

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