HRC Honda releases statement on Cole Seely's Shock Failure at MXoN

10/4/2017 12:41pm
Like the "by the way, the other company shock didn't fail" portion of the release. Subtle jab at KYB?
Rooster
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10/4/2017 12:41pm
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
Motofinne
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10/4/2017 12:43pm
That shock has an serious design flaw. To have that happen twice within 30 min of riding is just crazy and i don't buy the "weird circumstances" theory, not when it happened twice. Especially if Seely was the only Honda out there with KYB suspension.

arvid
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10/4/2017 12:47pm
Rooster wrote:
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out. I guess there's no place for duct...
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer

The Shop

slipdog
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10/4/2017 12:48pm
MX Guy wrote:
Over it already, we fvqqin lost again, period

This is where I'm at. Shit happens... sometimes twice!
gt80rider
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10/4/2017 12:52pm
First off, very cool of hrc to release a statement.... Now, are they smart enough to Never use that design again? Will they start Fully testing parts before they end up on a factory bike at a big event?
Question
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10/4/2017 12:54pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2017 12:55pm
That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!
That's a good one.

Looking at the mud, it is logical the french won because this is how the bike of any serious youngster looks like at least 10% to 20% of the year. Except near "Provence", it is not Cali or Florida ... The British team could almost have had their own Maggiora 86 by playing a mudder wild card like Simpson.

Long story short:

A couple years ago a magic product for mud came out. Basically a product keeping the bike clean. Was it a total scam ???
gt80rider
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10/4/2017 12:55pm
Rooster wrote:
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out. I guess there's no place for duct...
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
They knew what happened in the first Moto, why did they not change anything for the second? And hell yes, a bit of tape could have helped eliminate a dnf in the second moto, why didn't they do it? Even some hack fix is better than pulling a dnf at arguably the biggest race of the year. Pretty much inexcusable for honda to allow that to happen the second time.
10/4/2017 1:01pm
gt80rider wrote:
They knew what happened in the first Moto, why did they not change anything for the second? And hell yes, a bit of tape could have...
They knew what happened in the first Moto, why did they not change anything for the second? And hell yes, a bit of tape could have helped eliminate a dnf in the second moto, why didn't they do it? Even some hack fix is better than pulling a dnf at arguably the biggest race of the year. Pretty much inexcusable for honda to allow that to happen the second time.
I don't think a factory effort is willing to put a "hack fix" when a rider's safety is at hand. Not to mention, the shock is manufactured by KYB, they put it on, not make the parts. Also remember, they had less than about an hour to turn it around. That's tough in that time frame to come up with a fix, especially when you think it's just an one-off issue.
davis224
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10/4/2017 1:07pm
What would you have done to prevent this, armchair engineers? Clock is ticking.
newmann
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10/4/2017 1:15pm
davis224 wrote:
What would you have done to prevent this, armchair engineers? Clock is ticking.
How did I do?
newmann
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10/4/2017 1:16pm
So easy even the Ex Miss Supercross could have saved the day.

twotwosix
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10/4/2017 1:16pm
davis224 wrote:
What would you have done to prevent this, armchair engineers? Clock is ticking.
Design a different shock collar? Seems obvious.

If you are asking what you do in the heat of the moment after the moto 1 DNF, its pretty simple... You go hop on the truck and steal a Showa shock, throw the right spring rate in it, bolt it up and head out for Moto 2...
NorCal 50+
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10/4/2017 1:18pm
That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!
Question wrote:
That's a good one. Looking at the mud, it is logical the french won because this is how the bike of any serious youngster looks like...
That's a good one.

Looking at the mud, it is logical the french won because this is how the bike of any serious youngster looks like at least 10% to 20% of the year. Except near "Provence", it is not Cali or Florida ... The British team could almost have had their own Maggiora 86 by playing a mudder wild card like Simpson.

Long story short:

A couple years ago a magic product for mud came out. Basically a product keeping the bike clean. Was it a total scam ???
Any professional rider should be able to ride mud. It's not like it's a different sport or something. It just requires some different techniques.
Katoomey
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10/4/2017 1:30pm
This is why i hate people.
Johnny Depp
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10/4/2017 1:44pm
newmann wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/64/photos/16708/s780_84896050_1234050950.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/superbikes/67935d1273539798-ohlins-rear-shock-cover-p5100120.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.partycity.com/images/products/en_us/gtwy/halloween-2017/costume-accessories-legs/img-costume-accessories-leggings-fishnet.jpg[/img]




Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Great holeshot Newmann.

Robgvx
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10/4/2017 1:58pm
Rooster wrote:
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out. I guess there's no place for duct...
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
It...Was...A...Rock

I'll say that again. (Well, actually about the fourth time since Monday) It...was...a...rock.

Well, actually I imagine a piece of Flint, which Matterley Basin is coved in. You know, that stuff they used to make arrow heads out of? A piece of duct tape wouldn't have stopped a flint wedge from prising that collar open.



flymoto
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10/4/2017 2:29pm
mark911 wrote:
So if the cause of the problem is so obvious to guys like you and me, why didn't the team take at least some remedial action...
So if the cause of the problem is so obvious to guys like you and me, why didn't the team take at least some remedial action to prevent it for the second race? You know what they say about expecting a different outcome when nothing else changes (like just replacing the shock with the another one and hoping).
Apparently they stuffed some foam around there to stop mud packing in it! What Cole said in a interview anyway, seems pretty technical Laughing
dean122
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10/4/2017 2:55pm
davis224 wrote:
What would you have done to prevent this, armchair engineers? Clock is ticking.
Besides what Newmann already mentioned, last ditch effort would've been hose clamp around the collar or at the very minimum, wrap that thing with about 10 zip ties. Anything to keep that damn collared gap from splitting again.
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10/4/2017 3:27pm
Rooster wrote:
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out. I guess there's no place for duct...
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
Robgvx wrote:
It...Was...A...Rock I'll say that again. (Well, actually about the fourth time since Monday) It...was...a...rock. Well, actually I imagine a piece of Flint, which Matterley Basin is...
It...Was...A...Rock

I'll say that again. (Well, actually about the fourth time since Monday) It...was...a...rock.

Well, actually I imagine a piece of Flint, which Matterley Basin is coved in. You know, that stuff they used to make arrow heads out of? A piece of duct tape wouldn't have stopped a flint wedge from prising that collar open.



I asked this on the other thread, but, did they recover the broken/bent collar from either moto? I'm assuming it came off, which means it was somewhere out there in the mud. Obviously the collar failed for the spring to drop, but I can't figure out how they would know specifically what went wrong without seeing the collar.
10/4/2017 3:49pm
Why didn't other brands using a KYB shock experience a similar issue? Was Cole the only Honda out there using a factory KYB shock?
Yes he was the only HRC rider using that particular system.
reded
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10/4/2017 3:49pm
I'm no engineer or factory mechanic but I can goddamn guarantee if I were, I could come up with a solution to keep that collar from coming unseated due to mud buildup in 1.5 hrs between motos.
10/4/2017 4:02pm
Xeno wrote:
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice? ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have...
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice?
ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have the time, right?
It split in half.
F.B
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10/4/2017 4:23pm
Question wrote:
That's a good one. Looking at the mud, it is logical the french won because this is how the bike of any serious youngster looks like...
That's a good one.

Looking at the mud, it is logical the french won because this is how the bike of any serious youngster looks like at least 10% to 20% of the year. Except near "Provence", it is not Cali or Florida ... The British team could almost have had their own Maggiora 86 by playing a mudder wild card like Simpson.

Long story short:

A couple years ago a magic product for mud came out. Basically a product keeping the bike clean. Was it a total scam ???
Yeah, Charlier and Paulin grew up riding muddy tracks. Dry
IceMan446
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10/4/2017 4:32pm
Xeno wrote:
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice? ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have...
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice?
ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have the time, right?
exactly.

You wold have to compress the spring enough to lift the retainer up and out and do it all at the same time.

I get mud packing in the area of the retainer but man that seems very weird to me and even so with it happening twice.
GrapeApe
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10/4/2017 4:35pm
Xeno wrote:
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice? ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have...
How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice?
ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have the time, right?
It split in half.
How do they know, did they recover the pieces from the track?
10/4/2017 5:39pm
davis224 wrote:
What would you have done to prevent this, armchair engineers? Clock is ticking.
This exactly. Now keep in mind that there was about a couple of hours between motos from coming off the track to being in the parc ferme, that's well before the sighting lap and gate drop, you've got to wash the bike like spotless, remove the seat tank and subframe and finish washing the bike, remove the shock, study, discuss, come up with a probable cause, decide if it was a technician error, mechanical or freak failure, come up with best solution, modify or change, reassemble the bike, go over the bike for other damage, change filters, oil and wheels/tyres and anything else damaged in his crashes like grips or levers, refuel the bike, change anything else Cole may have thought to be slowing him, and present to the parc ferme.
Would any of you here be able to do that? How long does it actually take you to wash your bike after a mud race?
Would be great to have hindsight and a week to come up with a dodgy resolution that is strong enough to stop mud that's been basically hydraulically rammed into the spring cup every time the shock bottoms,but they didn't.
Get over it and stop looking for someone to blame for the USA's lose. Accept it for what it was, a failure that hadn't presented itself in a whole year of racing and testing, and an ass whooping by certain French, Dutch and English riders
to the rest of the world.
kkawboy14
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10/4/2017 5:40pm
Rooster wrote:
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out. I guess there's no place for duct...
Shame that a little bit of duct tape could have sealed up that gap and kept the mud out.

I guess there's no place for duct tape on factory bikes.
Robgvx wrote:
It...Was...A...Rock I'll say that again. (Well, actually about the fourth time since Monday) It...was...a...rock. Well, actually I imagine a piece of Flint, which Matterley Basin is...
It...Was...A...Rock

I'll say that again. (Well, actually about the fourth time since Monday) It...was...a...rock.

Well, actually I imagine a piece of Flint, which Matterley Basin is coved in. You know, that stuff they used to make arrow heads out of? A piece of duct tape wouldn't have stopped a flint wedge from prising that collar open.



You have no proof it was a rock, it could have just broke or it could have just popped off....right?

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