2019 KTM 2 Stroke SX line have TPI?

Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 1/23/2018 10:38am
1/23/2018 10:38am
dcg141 wrote:
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my...
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my understanding that everyone riding for KTM/Husqvarna on 2 strokes must ride the TPI bike this year. That should help the consumer in the long run. KTM must be pretty confident in the system to go that route.
Tuna wrote:
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based...
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based on those racing test mules no doubt.
Sherco is waiting on KTM and Beta will be doing the same. Hopefully the hardware works out. Some Beta owners have had problems with their oil pumps though to be fair it’s not the same set up as the KTM.
Beta is not waiting on KTM, they are interested in the best performing cheapest solution to pass emissions when they are required. So far carb is still it.
Dirty Points 1/23/2018 10:38am
1/23/2018 10:38am
byke wrote:
How far back does one need to go to get away from integrated circuit electronics on a dirt bike? Something from the 1970's with points?
And pretty much the number one mod everybody goes for with vintage dirtbikes is electronic ignition.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 1/23/2018 12:45pm
1/23/2018 12:45pm
dcg141 wrote:
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my...
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my understanding that everyone riding for KTM/Husqvarna on 2 strokes must ride the TPI bike this year. That should help the consumer in the long run. KTM must be pretty confident in the system to go that route.
Tuna wrote:
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based...
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based on those racing test mules no doubt.
Sherco is waiting on KTM and Beta will be doing the same. Hopefully the hardware works out. Some Beta owners have had problems with their oil pumps though to be fair it’s not the same set up as the KTM.
Interesting that Graham Jarvis rode a 4t for the UK championship. http://enduro21.com/index.php/extreme/2938-4-stroke-mounted-jarvis-wins…

Probably checking out his options.
Tuna
Profile picture for user Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
Tuna 1/23/2018 1:11pm
1/23/2018 1:11pm
dcg141 wrote:
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my...
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my understanding that everyone riding for KTM/Husqvarna on 2 strokes must ride the TPI bike this year. That should help the consumer in the long run. KTM must be pretty confident in the system to go that route.
Tuna wrote:
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based...
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based on those racing test mules no doubt.
Sherco is waiting on KTM and Beta will be doing the same. Hopefully the hardware works out. Some Beta owners have had problems with their oil pumps though to be fair it’s not the same set up as the KTM.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Interesting that Graham Jarvis rode a 4t for the UK championship. http://enduro21.com/index.php/extreme/2938-4-stroke-mounted-jarvis-wins…

Probably checking out his options.
He rode it because it’s the new RE and they wanna sell bikes. Another reason is because they are still working on the 300 and getting it dialed in. He was playing with gearing options on it so it was closer to the carb model on bottom end power and response.

The Shop

See All »
Tuna
Profile picture for user Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
Tuna 1/23/2018 1:14pm
1/23/2018 1:14pm
He said he liked the 250 but it felt a little heavy compared to the 300.
Tuna
Profile picture for user Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
Tuna 1/23/2018 2:57pm
1/23/2018 2:57pm
dcg141 wrote:
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my...
Sherco had a running model that they released video of a couple of years ago. Not sure what they have going on with production. It's my understanding that everyone riding for KTM/Husqvarna on 2 strokes must ride the TPI bike this year. That should help the consumer in the long run. KTM must be pretty confident in the system to go that route.
Tuna wrote:
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based...
Yup, that’s the deal with Factory riders. Not a lot of 300 TPI bikes around right now. You will see improvements on the 19 model based on those racing test mules no doubt.
Sherco is waiting on KTM and Beta will be doing the same. Hopefully the hardware works out. Some Beta owners have had problems with their oil pumps though to be fair it’s not the same set up as the KTM.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Beta is not waiting on KTM, they are interested in the best performing cheapest solution to pass emissions when they are required. So far carb is...
Beta is not waiting on KTM, they are interested in the best performing cheapest solution to pass emissions when they are required. So far carb is still it.
They will most likely have it ready for 2020 as that is when Euro5 goes into effect. The 2013 was first designed to be injected when they designed it. Like you said cost is an issue, and there is quite a cost jump to go injected.
Lightning78
Profile picture for user Lightning78
Posts
6313
Joined
12/12/2007
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
Lightning78 1/23/2018 11:40pm
1/23/2018 11:40pm
I so wish KTM would just blindsided and shock everyone by releasing an open bike 2 stroke in the lastest generation 2 stroke chassis .... Like revamping their 380sx or even a 500sx 2 stroke would be titty city!!

They'd sell every single one of them before they even hit the dealer showrooms.... Just like their dedication to the 125/150/250 that don't really have a place in pro racing except for EMX but people still WANT them and if they paid attention to Service Honda's immense success with their 500af I would bet my life on it that a 380sx or a 500sx would be an absolute slam dunk! They could just release a modern version of a 380 or 500 and literally wouldn't have to invest another penny into development into it for over 5 years and it would sell out every single model year.
Wade_Wright
Profile picture for user Wade_Wright
Posts
7
Joined
11/22/2017
Location
east london ZA
Wade_Wright 6/27/2018 4:49am
6/27/2018 4:49am
hi all

I bought myself ktm 150sx 2019. brilliant bike!


fuel mixture 40.1 on 95 unleaded (caster 927 two stroke)

jetting straight foward , I live at sea level . 480 main one size bigger , 2clip on needle one leaner , 27.5 pilot . This sorted out my slight bog i had and transition onto the needle at 1/4 throttle

Rode past weekend at another track inland at 1560 ft

jetting was 470 main , 43-71 needle supplied in jet kit ran on 3rd clip , 27.5 pilot . smooth power through rev range, no bog or splutters .

enjoy guys


make1go
Profile picture for user make1go
Posts
905
Joined
2/3/2018
Location
BF
make1go 6/27/2018 7:15am
6/27/2018 7:15am
who wants a 2t without a 2t hit?

btw ive riden one and ride 2t and 4ts mx and off road...

once they become more common and people workout how and what can be done then things will change.
ruy
Profile picture for user ruy
Posts
4092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
España ES
ruy 6/27/2018 1:29pm
6/27/2018 1:29pm
In the EMX 300 championship there is not any TPI, which makes it clear that the TPI does not provide an advantage in MX.
In Enduro, most of the factory riders have not used the 2018, they have been using them for a month, we do not know what changes these bikes already carry.
The private pilots or users of the Enduro 2018 already have three updates of injection maps and now they says that they are going better...
ruy
Profile picture for user ruy
Posts
4092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
España ES
ruy 6/27/2018 1:31pm
6/27/2018 1:31pm
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 6/27/2018 1:47pm
6/27/2018 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2018 1:48pm
For now, TPI is designed as a fix for an emissions problem. As a result, tuners and users are unable to have control of the system. It is locked down, with modest dealer adjustments available. Eventually someone will create hardware and software that will allow tuning the way 4t's have now for racing applications. At that point, the full potential of the systems will be realized for power delivery. Good low end 2t torque requires rich jetting, the opposite of how these are set up.

The costs are higher, as is the weight for FI. If you are building the perfect beast, and cost is not an issue, then sure go for it. Paying more on the showroom for a more complex, heavier, slower, non adjustable system is not something we should want for U.S. race bikes. We don't have an emissions rule, and are being used as guinea pigs to sort out the problems. Let them build U.S. models without FI.
Moto_Geek
Profile picture for user Moto_Geek
Posts
1823
Joined
6/26/2007
Location
Golden, CO US
Fantasy
1464th
Moto_Geek 6/27/2018 1:49pm
6/27/2018 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2018 1:55pm
Just received word TPI's are ceasing up. Detonation and pinging!!! Running to lean on top end. Reports from Europe. Few search later.. TPI but with problem that need to be addressed. Sad

https://youtu.be/v1qGnUK0RCI
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15458
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
ML512 6/27/2018 1:49pm
6/27/2018 1:49pm
ruy wrote:
In the EMX 300 championship there is not any TPI, which makes it clear that the TPI does not provide an advantage in MX. In Enduro...
In the EMX 300 championship there is not any TPI, which makes it clear that the TPI does not provide an advantage in MX.
In Enduro, most of the factory riders have not used the 2018, they have been using them for a month, we do not know what changes these bikes already carry.
The private pilots or users of the Enduro 2018 already have three updates of injection maps and now they says that they are going better...
KTM/Husky engineers said it be a few years before they brought it to Moto, I don’t expect to see it in racing for another year or two.
MX915
Profile picture for user MX915
Posts
469
Joined
1/17/2018
Location
Central, NJ US
MX915 6/27/2018 2:02pm
6/27/2018 2:02pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
For now, TPI is designed as a fix for an[b] emissions [/b]problem. As a result, tuners and users are unable to have control of the system...
For now, TPI is designed as a fix for an emissions problem. As a result, tuners and users are unable to have control of the system. It is locked down, with modest dealer adjustments available. Eventually someone will create hardware and software that will allow tuning the way 4t's have now for racing applications. At that point, the full potential of the systems will be realized for power delivery. Good low end 2t torque requires rich jetting, the opposite of how these are set up.

The costs are higher, as is the weight for FI. If you are building the perfect beast, and cost is not an issue, then sure go for it. Paying more on the showroom for a more complex, heavier, slower, non adjustable system is not something we should want for U.S. race bikes. We don't have an emissions rule, and are being used as guinea pigs to sort out the problems. Let them build U.S. models without FI.
I'm sure if there was an SX model TPI, the ECU wouldn't be locked. Much like the SXF ECUs aren't locked like the EXC models.

Everyone seems to forget that when the 4 strokes switched to EFI from the ol' reliable FCR carbs, the initial response was how much slower (i.e. smoother) they were.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 6/27/2018 2:10pm
6/27/2018 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2018 3:58pm
Just for fun, compare this to a carburetor:



What could possibly go wrong?
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
28971
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
TeamGreen 6/27/2018 2:23pm
6/27/2018 2:23pm
Wade_Wright wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/06/27/270688/s1200_wade_958.jpg[/img]


BRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPP!

Pit Row

See All »
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 6/27/2018 2:43pm
6/27/2018 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2018 2:46pm
Good info, thanks for that. I hadn't heard of them offering a 2nd injector, it appears to be for 250f's only? I know Beta added it to their 4t's last year and it mounts near the airbox at the beginning of the air boot. The GET system for the Beta is not a full unlock, it's got maps.

Have you run the GET system? It sounds like that's what you are describing? I'm sure we'd all love to see some dyno runs if anyone has done it yet?
kijen
Profile picture for user kijen
Posts
1031
Joined
10/1/2010
Location
Jacksonville, FL US
kijen 6/27/2018 3:52pm
6/27/2018 3:52pm
Motofinne wrote:
It's kind of funny reading all these comments about FI on 2 strokes. I'm sure the people back in the day said the same about disc...
It's kind of funny reading all these comments about FI on 2 strokes.

I'm sure the people back in the day said the same about disc brakes, the first 4 stroke, USD forks, monoshock etc.
I like good stuff, but you do know that not all change results in an improvement, different is not always better. If it was you would be riding an alta, r right?
jsmi33966
Profile picture for user jsmi33966
Posts
217
Joined
3/25/2018
Location
Port Isabel, TX US
jsmi33966 6/27/2018 5:05pm
6/27/2018 5:05pm
Motofinne wrote:
It's kind of funny reading all these comments about FI on 2 strokes. I'm sure the people back in the day said the same about disc...
It's kind of funny reading all these comments about FI on 2 strokes.

I'm sure the people back in the day said the same about disc brakes, the first 4 stroke, USD forks, monoshock etc.
Why would people hate disk breaks when the sport was doing fine? Now the sport is dying and thats why people are against more expensive bikes. I hope they ban efi so the price of bikes will go down the sale of bikes will go up and more tracks and ridership.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 6/28/2018 7:39am
6/28/2018 7:39am Edited Date/Time 6/28/2018 7:43am
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg. typically 13-15 mpg in the City. We have seen all kinds of technological "improvements" all supposed to improve MPG. Smaller more efficient engines, twin turbos, variable valve train, DOHC, cylinder FI cut out when not needed, 8 speed transmissions, aerodynamics, spark plug coil packs, 5W oil, serpentine drive belts and who knows what else. Guess what today's trucks do in the city? 13-15. I see it every day on test drives when you push the instant mpg. We can blame it on big oil, but WTF?
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8260
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
early 6/28/2018 7:41am
6/28/2018 7:41am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg...
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg. typically 13-15 mpg in the City. We have seen all kinds of technological "improvements" all supposed to improve MPG. Smaller more efficient engines, twin turbos, variable valve train, DOHC, cylinder FI cut out when not needed, 8 speed transmissions, aerodynamics, spark plug coil packs, 5W oil, serpentine drive belts and who knows what else. Guess what today's trucks do in the city? 13-15. I see it every day on test drives when you push the instant mpg. We can blame it on big oil, but WTF?
Have you tried looking at the HP and Torque numbers over that period of time?
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 6/28/2018 8:03am
6/28/2018 8:03am Edited Date/Time 6/28/2018 8:13am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg...
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg. typically 13-15 mpg in the City. We have seen all kinds of technological "improvements" all supposed to improve MPG. Smaller more efficient engines, twin turbos, variable valve train, DOHC, cylinder FI cut out when not needed, 8 speed transmissions, aerodynamics, spark plug coil packs, 5W oil, serpentine drive belts and who knows what else. Guess what today's trucks do in the city? 13-15. I see it every day on test drives when you push the instant mpg. We can blame it on big oil, but WTF?
early wrote:
Have you tried looking at the HP and Torque numbers over that period of time?
Thread killer, but you know it's fun to argue..

*Chevy 350 cu in (5.7 L) (1967-2003)
145–370 hp (108–276 kW)
1999 the 5.3L was claimed to have 270horsepower and 315 lb-fts of torque, and the old 5.7L had 255hp, and 325lb-fts of torque. They made higher output engines for the Camaro and Corvette.

*Ram 2013– Current 5.7 L (345 cu in) Hemi V8 395 hp (295 kW) 410 lb⋅ft (560 N⋅m)

I am not impressed. Yes they make more HP per CC today.

MPG is the question. I sell Ram's every day, and 18 mpg city on a 4x4 is strong.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?engineconfig_id=19&bodytype_id=14&su…
Fuelly is a good site, but they don't have a spot for 4x4 separate.

2017
14.9

Avg MPG

2
Vehicles

18
Fuel-ups

5,593
Miles Tracked

View All 2017 Ram 1500s

2016
15.4

Avg MPG

3
Vehicles

164
Fuel-ups

53,751
Miles Tracked

View All 2016 Ram 1500s

2015
15.9

Avg MPG

4
Vehicles

169
Fuel-ups

59,016
Miles Tracked

View All 2015 Ram 1500s

2014
15.2

Avg MPG

2
Vehicles

115
Fuel-ups

43,503
Miles Tracked

View All 2014 Ram 1500s


seth505
Profile picture for user seth505
Posts
9369
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA US
Fantasy
1092nd
seth505 6/28/2018 8:10am
6/28/2018 8:10am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg...
Here's some more fun info. I started selling Trucks about the time that FI was the new big thing. In the 80's a truck would avg. typically 13-15 mpg in the City. We have seen all kinds of technological "improvements" all supposed to improve MPG. Smaller more efficient engines, twin turbos, variable valve train, DOHC, cylinder FI cut out when not needed, 8 speed transmissions, aerodynamics, spark plug coil packs, 5W oil, serpentine drive belts and who knows what else. Guess what today's trucks do in the city? 13-15. I see it every day on test drives when you push the instant mpg. We can blame it on big oil, but WTF?
early wrote:
Have you tried looking at the HP and Torque numbers over that period of time?
Johnny Depp wrote:
Thread killer, but you know it's fun to argue.. *Chevy 350 cu in (5.7 L) (1967-2003) 145–[b]370 [/b]hp (108–276 kW) 1999 the 5.3L was claimed to...
Thread killer, but you know it's fun to argue..

*Chevy 350 cu in (5.7 L) (1967-2003)
145–370 hp (108–276 kW)
1999 the 5.3L was claimed to have 270horsepower and 315 lb-fts of torque, and the old 5.7L had 255hp, and 325lb-fts of torque. They made higher output engines for the Camaro and Corvette.

*Ram 2013– Current 5.7 L (345 cu in) Hemi V8 395 hp (295 kW) 410 lb⋅ft (560 N⋅m)

I am not impressed. Yes they make more HP per CC today.

MPG is the question. I sell Ram's every day, and 18 mpg city on a 4x4 is strong.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?engineconfig_id=19&bodytype_id=14&su…
Fuelly is a good site, but they don't have a spot for 4x4 separate.

2017
14.9

Avg MPG

2
Vehicles

18
Fuel-ups

5,593
Miles Tracked

View All 2017 Ram 1500s

2016
15.4

Avg MPG

3
Vehicles

164
Fuel-ups

53,751
Miles Tracked

View All 2016 Ram 1500s

2015
15.9

Avg MPG

4
Vehicles

169
Fuel-ups

59,016
Miles Tracked

View All 2015 Ram 1500s

2014
15.2

Avg MPG

2
Vehicles

115
Fuel-ups

43,503
Miles Tracked

View All 2014 Ram 1500s


I have to be honest, my 2017 Ram with 395 HP gets better mileage than my 2000 that had 235 HP and my 2004 that had 345 HP.
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8027
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 6/28/2018 3:24pm
6/28/2018 3:24pm
This is from my truck 5 minutes ago. The MPG gauge is usually 0.3-0.5 MPG optimistic. So I’m really in the 17.8 range or so. That is with towing a bike trailer for a few days too. On the highway it gets a shade over 20.

Put my enclosed on the back and watch the MPG nosedive haha.


Post a reply to: 2019 KTM 2 Stroke SX line have TPI?