Aftermarket Engine Mount Problems

CivBars
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CivBars
Edited Date/Time 11/14/2019 10:35am
Putting too much stress on the motor? Heard some people are having issues.
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Sheriff245 11/4/2019 3:11pm
11/4/2019 3:11pm
Shouldn’t make a difference if they were installed correctly
Underground 11/4/2019 3:45pm
11/4/2019 3:45pm
If you took strength out the mount, i.e. more flex, shouldn't that put less stress on the engine as a frame strengthening component or brace?
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JB 19
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JB 19 11/4/2019 4:22pm
11/4/2019 4:22pm
Never heard of her.
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The Shop

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nascarnate326 11/4/2019 4:43pm
11/4/2019 4:43pm
Swap Moto's recent video had a...non happy rider from this weekend that had some issues.

I wasn't there and didn't see it so I will not blow anyone else out.
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misterwaterfallin 11/4/2019 5:17pm
11/4/2019 5:17pm
nascarnate326 wrote:
Swap Moto's recent video had a...non happy rider from this weekend that had some issues. I wasn't there and didn't see it so I will not...
Swap Moto's recent video had a...non happy rider from this weekend that had some issues.

I wasn't there and didn't see it so I will not blow anyone else out.
He also said FCP rushed over and pulled them off of his bike. Not the best look
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Cygrace74
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Cygrace74 11/4/2019 5:36pm
11/4/2019 5:36pm
misterwaterfallin wrote:
He also said FCP rushed over and pulled them off of his bike. Not the best look
Which video is this?
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 11/4/2019 5:43pm
11/4/2019 5:43pm
So, perhaps not enough R&D into these things? Like, maybe the engineers at the manufacturers sorted out the stock ones to be a certain stiffness/strength to accommodate the bikes and ensure reliability?

In all honesty I hope the market for aftermarket mounts flourishes (or continues to do so anyway)... It's a cool concept. They still have to do their homework though!
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colvin227
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colvin227 11/4/2019 5:45pm
11/4/2019 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2019 5:46pm
I've heard nothing but praise from the Works Chassis lab mounts. If anything I would think more stress would be transferred to the frames not the engine since the mounts usually are "softer" and flex more. Even still I would think these "issues" would take years or high hours to actually show on a normal riders bike if at all. I can see it being a feeling maybe some don't like vs an actual structural issue.
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rob162
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rob162 11/4/2019 6:14pm
11/4/2019 6:14pm
Im sure the mounts are built fine. Probably just a freak accident that's easily explainable. Im sure they would rush over right away. The mount industry isnt very big so best to minimize the negative exposure.
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dancolvin633
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dancolvin633 11/4/2019 6:34pm
11/4/2019 6:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2019 6:35pm
Love my WCL mounts for all my Kawis. All my buddies have them for Honda’s too, prolly 12 guys and they love them! I know making sure they are torqued properly with a good torque wrench is important and the sequence in which they are torqued is as well.
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dancolvin633
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dancolvin633 11/4/2019 6:35pm
11/4/2019 6:35pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2019 6:36pm
Keep in mind the FCP and WCL are not the same......
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Luxon MX
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Luxon MX 11/4/2019 8:33pm
11/4/2019 8:33pm
He's saying that the mounts put too much stress on the motor and he had a problem. What the problem actually was wasn't really discussed, so hard to say what's really going on.

In general, if the mounts are "softer" than stock, e.g. more flexy, then they shouldn't put any more stress on the engine than stock. They would likely increase the stress in the frame, though, and in the mounts themselves. Realistically, I doubt that the increased stresses would be worth worrying about one way or another in the frame or in the motor, so long as everything is properly installed. But I could see an engine mount breaking if it were a bad design. Being that these mounts are typically designed to add more flex and that the uppers are aluminum, I could see a fatigue issue occurring if the design isn't well vetted.

Regardless, it's hard to say without knowing the whole story. But this is Vital, so let the speculation begin! Laughing
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kb228
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kb228 11/5/2019 4:47am
11/5/2019 4:47am
Luxon MX wrote:
He's saying that the mounts put too much stress on the motor and he had a problem. What the problem actually was wasn't really discussed, so...
He's saying that the mounts put too much stress on the motor and he had a problem. What the problem actually was wasn't really discussed, so hard to say what's really going on.

In general, if the mounts are "softer" than stock, e.g. more flexy, then they shouldn't put any more stress on the engine than stock. They would likely increase the stress in the frame, though, and in the mounts themselves. Realistically, I doubt that the increased stresses would be worth worrying about one way or another in the frame or in the motor, so long as everything is properly installed. But I could see an engine mount breaking if it were a bad design. Being that these mounts are typically designed to add more flex and that the uppers are aluminum, I could see a fatigue issue occurring if the design isn't well vetted.

Regardless, it's hard to say without knowing the whole story. But this is Vital, so let the speculation begin! Laughing
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/5/2019 5:25am
11/5/2019 5:25am
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.

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Dirty Points 11/5/2019 5:47am
11/5/2019 5:47am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2019 5:48am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration, not chassis flex, in which case, a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points.
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/5/2019 6:39am
11/5/2019 6:39am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
Dirty Points wrote:
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration...
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration, not chassis flex, in which case, a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points.
Are you an expert in this field? Or is this hypothesis like me? (honest question)
Dirty Points 11/5/2019 6:40am
11/5/2019 6:40am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2019 7:45am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
Dirty Points wrote:
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration...
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration, not chassis flex, in which case, a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Are you an expert in this field? Or is this hypothesis like me? (honest question)
Completely hypothetical. I have no idea what broke, or if anything did even break.

I am just counterpointing the assertion that more flex means less material stress in a dynamic situation - see the Tacoma narrows bridge as the textbook example. We also know that shear strength for the materials we are talking about (steel/aluminum) is a fraction of tensile strength, so the direction of force on a bolt hole can be just as critical as the amount of force.
Moto520
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Moto520 11/5/2019 7:08am
11/5/2019 7:08am
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of the motocross world (just kidding....i know CBD helps certain issues including sleep/ anxiety)
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Markopolo400
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Markopolo400 11/5/2019 7:17am
11/5/2019 7:17am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2019 7:18am
"Bike let go going up Mt. St Helens"
CivBars
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CivBars 11/5/2019 7:54am
11/5/2019 7:54am
At least now we can rule out the placebo effect. The mounts do make a difference. It just might be detrimental to the bike?
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ridinbeast932 11/5/2019 8:24am
11/5/2019 8:24am
Dirty Points wrote:
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration...
But perhaps more deflection in the direction of those forces at the bolt holes, which could be critical. The acting force could also be engine vibration, not chassis flex, in which case, a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Are you an expert in this field? Or is this hypothesis like me? (honest question)
Dirty Points wrote:
Completely hypothetical. I have no idea what broke, or if anything did even break. I am just counterpointing the assertion that more flex means less material...
Completely hypothetical. I have no idea what broke, or if anything did even break.

I am just counterpointing the assertion that more flex means less material stress in a dynamic situation - see the Tacoma narrows bridge as the textbook example. We also know that shear strength for the materials we are talking about (steel/aluminum) is a fraction of tensile strength, so the direction of force on a bolt hole can be just as critical as the amount of force.
I agree with you on your hypothetical conclusion. "a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points."
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/5/2019 8:58am
11/5/2019 8:58am
Moto520 wrote:
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of...
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of the motocross world (just kidding....i know CBD helps certain issues including sleep/ anxiety)
Like a gym membership?!SillyGrinningSillyGrinningTongue
1
Moto520
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Moto520 11/5/2019 9:35am
11/5/2019 9:35am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2019 9:38am
Moto520 wrote:
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of...
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of the motocross world (just kidding....i know CBD helps certain issues including sleep/ anxiety)
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Like a gym membership?!SillyGrinningSillyGrinningTongue
Yeah....and a new tire. I mean....come on....an engine mount? I call bullshit on anyone that feels a MEASUREABLE advantage. Placebo effect? Yes. Sorry guys.
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kb228
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kb228 11/5/2019 10:09am
11/5/2019 10:09am
Moto520 wrote:
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of...
I personally would leave that shit alone and focus on changes that have a more direct impact on rider feedback. Engine mounts are the CBD of the motocross world (just kidding....i know CBD helps certain issues including sleep/ anxiety)
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Like a gym membership?!SillyGrinningSillyGrinningTongue
Moto520 wrote:
Yeah....and a new tire. I mean....come on....an engine mount? I call bullshit on anyone that feels a MEASUREABLE advantage. Placebo effect? Yes. Sorry guys.
You know good test riders arent told about changes made to the bike and are able to tell the team the difference
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aees
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aees 11/5/2019 12:13pm
11/5/2019 12:13pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Are you an expert in this field? Or is this hypothesis like me? (honest question)
Dirty Points wrote:
Completely hypothetical. I have no idea what broke, or if anything did even break. I am just counterpointing the assertion that more flex means less material...
Completely hypothetical. I have no idea what broke, or if anything did even break.

I am just counterpointing the assertion that more flex means less material stress in a dynamic situation - see the Tacoma narrows bridge as the textbook example. We also know that shear strength for the materials we are talking about (steel/aluminum) is a fraction of tensile strength, so the direction of force on a bolt hole can be just as critical as the amount of force.
ridinbeast932 wrote:
I agree with you on your hypothetical conclusion. "a more flexible mount would increase the dynamic loads on the mounting points."
Not only that. rear tire and chain is fixed, aligned. An engine that twists to much is not good for drive train.
Austin_Rankin 11/5/2019 6:11pm
11/5/2019 6:11pm
Luxon MX wrote:
He's saying that the mounts put too much stress on the motor and he had a problem. What the problem actually was wasn't really discussed, so...
He's saying that the mounts put too much stress on the motor and he had a problem. What the problem actually was wasn't really discussed, so hard to say what's really going on.

In general, if the mounts are "softer" than stock, e.g. more flexy, then they shouldn't put any more stress on the engine than stock. They would likely increase the stress in the frame, though, and in the mounts themselves. Realistically, I doubt that the increased stresses would be worth worrying about one way or another in the frame or in the motor, so long as everything is properly installed. But I could see an engine mount breaking if it were a bad design. Being that these mounts are typically designed to add more flex and that the uppers are aluminum, I could see a fatigue issue occurring if the design isn't well vetted.

Regardless, it's hard to say without knowing the whole story. But this is Vital, so let the speculation begin! Laughing
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
Im with you on this one.
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