Alessi '03 Claimed Super Mini FOUND!!!

JoJmoto
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7/16/2010 7:31pm
Any idea what was illegal on the bike?
flarider
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7/16/2010 7:32pm
BTW, podium pictures?

TFS would be your source or MX Sports, maybe Thom Veety
flarider
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7/16/2010 7:33pm
JoJmoto wrote:
Any idea what was illegal on the bike?
Nothing
pcdoc
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7/16/2010 7:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2010 7:34pm
flarider wrote:
That is part of the legend and it was no secret it was retribution Personally, I think it was bullshit Varner had a shitload of time...
That is part of the legend and it was no secret it was retribution

Personally, I think it was bullshit
Varner had a shitload of time into that bike and my understanding was Terry was supposed to get the bike when it was all over, that was his trophy
The Chatfield's jacked Varner, not the Alessi's
pcdoc wrote:
flarider, I respect your opinion on this one, and I don't know Terry at all...nor the agreement on his trophy for his work invested. I was...
flarider, I respect your opinion on this one, and I don't know Terry at all...nor the agreement on his trophy for his work invested. I was really refering to the irony of a rider (any rider) claiming a guys bike and losing the claim, then getting his bike protested and losing his OWN claim...just sayin Wink
Bottom line...one family was cheating, one was not.
flarider wrote:
To clarify: At Ponca the Alessi's protested Adam's bike as illegal. After teardown, it was found to be legal. FYI, usually after a teardown, you get...
To clarify:
At Ponca the Alessi's protested Adam's bike as illegal. After teardown, it was found to be legal. FYI, usually after a teardown, you get it back in a box, unassembled, and even if assembled, would you trust the re-assembly? No, so you have to take it apart and reassemble if returned assembled.
It's just a bitch all the way around

So, Ol Man Chatfield plotted his revenge and showed at LL's with a wad of cash, because it's a cash only process.
I think you're still missing my point...Alessi LOST...his bike was ILLEGAL. As you point out, the ones that got screwed were the Chatfields (they had to completely re-assemble their LEGAL bike. I also know the rules. The reason its a cash only process, is to discourage frivolous protest....oh, and cheating.
1

The Shop

JoJmoto
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7/16/2010 7:34pm
so how did/does the claim rule work, you can claim any bike and you just pay a set price for it and they HAVE to give it to you?
1
flarider
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7/16/2010 7:35pm
pcdoc wrote:
flarider, I respect your opinion on this one, and I don't know Terry at all...nor the agreement on his trophy for his work invested. I was...
flarider, I respect your opinion on this one, and I don't know Terry at all...nor the agreement on his trophy for his work invested. I was really refering to the irony of a rider (any rider) claiming a guys bike and losing the claim, then getting his bike protested and losing his OWN claim...just sayin Wink
Bottom line...one family was cheating, one was not.
flarider wrote:
To clarify: At Ponca the Alessi's protested Adam's bike as illegal. After teardown, it was found to be legal. FYI, usually after a teardown, you get...
To clarify:
At Ponca the Alessi's protested Adam's bike as illegal. After teardown, it was found to be legal. FYI, usually after a teardown, you get it back in a box, unassembled, and even if assembled, would you trust the re-assembly? No, so you have to take it apart and reassemble if returned assembled.
It's just a bitch all the way around

So, Ol Man Chatfield plotted his revenge and showed at LL's with a wad of cash, because it's a cash only process.
pcdoc wrote:
I think you're still missing my point...Alessi LOST...his bike was ILLEGAL. As you point out, the ones that got screwed were the Chatfields (they had to...
I think you're still missing my point...Alessi LOST...his bike was ILLEGAL. As you point out, the ones that got screwed were the Chatfields (they had to completely re-assemble their LEGAL bike. I also know the rules. The reason its a cash only process, is to discourage frivolous protest....oh, and cheating.
Alessi lost the Ponca protest, the bike was LEGAL (not illegal)

Alessi's bike was not illegal, it was only claimed





MXR
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7/16/2010 7:37pm
That Tony is about as sharp as a marble .
1
Oldskool
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7/16/2010 7:41pm
flarider wrote:
BTW, podium pictures?

TFS would be your source or MX Sports, maybe Thom Veety
Thank you!!!
Chili
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7/16/2010 7:42pm
Ok to clarify for the misinformed in this post;

Protest = Put up the protest fee and state what you feel is illegal, bike is then torn down and whether or not the bike is found legal or illegal it still goes back to the owner. If the bike is illegal the rider is dq'd, if the bike proves legal I believe the protested rider gets the protest fee.

Claimed = You place a claim on another riders bike and pay the fee (certain % over MSRP) the bike is never inspected or checked by an official you must simply hand the bike over or face serious suspension from racing. This is to keep teams with the resources from making bikes worth exponential value compared to their competitors as they know they could lose the bike to a claim.
pcdoc
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7/16/2010 7:43pm
JoJmoto wrote:
so how did/does the claim rule work, you can claim any bike and you just pay a set price for it and they HAVE to give...
so how did/does the claim rule work, you can claim any bike and you just pay a set price for it and they HAVE to give it to you?
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you own the bike. If it was found to be legal, like flarider stated, theowner got the bike back in a box. The protestor was out his 50.00 bucks. Would you cheat if you knew that just 50.00 bucks was all it would take to tear you down?
flarider
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7/16/2010 7:43pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2010 7:45pm
JoJmoto wrote:
so how did/does the claim rule work, you can claim any bike and you just pay a set price for it and they HAVE to give...
so how did/does the claim rule work, you can claim any bike and you just pay a set price for it and they HAVE to give it to you?
You have to race in the same class of the rider and bike you wish to claim.

Upon the finish of the final moto, at the protest period (or within 30 mins) you may enter with the race official a "claim" for the particular bike you wish to claim.

You must have in cash or certified check, the blue book value of the bike + like 10% (I think it's 25% now)

The owner may not counter claim

Others may also enter a claim, and each claim must be of the same value (again, all must have cash or certified check).

In the event of multiple claims, you draw straws for a winner of the claim



If you refuse to give up the bike, you forfeit your race win and lose your license for a year



Here's where this was all screwed, there is no blue book on a "supermini," there is only the CR80Expert, so all the time, money, part, etc....involved in building a supermini means nothing

Chili
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7/16/2010 7:45pm
pcdoc wrote:
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you...
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you own the bike. If it was found to be legal, like flarider stated, theowner got the bike back in a box. The protestor was out his 50.00 bucks. Would you cheat if you knew that just 50.00 bucks was all it would take to tear you down?
I'd love to know where you raced with that setup, pretty harsh and unlike anything I've seen before.
7/16/2010 7:47pm
That looks like a morphed FMF YZ85 pipe.

Even thought the motors didn't change all that much from '95-'96, when the re-fit '95 style pipe went on the '96 and up... it sucked ass.

I modified a YZ80 design and bam... killer pipe for those bikes.

So from experience and looks... that'd be my guess.
flarider
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7/16/2010 7:50pm
pcdoc wrote:
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you...
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you own the bike. If it was found to be legal, like flarider stated, theowner got the bike back in a box. The protestor was out his 50.00 bucks. Would you cheat if you knew that just 50.00 bucks was all it would take to tear you down?
Chili wrote:
I'd love to know where you raced with that setup, pretty harsh and unlike anything I've seen before.
You own the bike if you win a protest?
For fifty bucks?

That's fucked up



DanDunes818
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7/16/2010 7:52pm
pcdoc wrote:
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you...
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you own the bike. If it was found to be legal, like flarider stated, theowner got the bike back in a box. The protestor was out his 50.00 bucks. Would you cheat if you knew that just 50.00 bucks was all it would take to tear you down?
Chili wrote:
I'd love to know where you raced with that setup, pretty harsh and unlike anything I've seen before.
flarider wrote:
You own the bike if you win a protest?
For fifty bucks?

That's fucked up



That's what i was thinking.. I would never bring my kids bike to that place legal or otherwise. you never know what they may call illegal and I'm out a bike.. Funk dat!!
pcdoc
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7/16/2010 7:53pm
pcdoc wrote:
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you...
The way we always did it, it was 50.00 bucks to protest a guys bike...if after tear down, it was found to be in violation, you own the bike. If it was found to be legal, like flarider stated, theowner got the bike back in a box. The protestor was out his 50.00 bucks. Would you cheat if you knew that just 50.00 bucks was all it would take to tear you down?
Chili wrote:
I'd love to know where you raced with that setup, pretty harsh and unlike anything I've seen before.
LOL, it was the mid 90's in Kansas, Richard and Juanita Bassinger were the people that ran the NMA qualifiers...maybe that was just Richards rule! We never did a protest in our local outlaw racing. Its been a long time since I even heard of someone protesting a bike. Just didnt happen in the midwest.
ruckus
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7/16/2010 7:54pm
i just spoke to the person who tore Chatfields bike down at PC and watched ol' man Chatfield hand over the cash at LL. they also referenced the pedigree and that bike is legit, 100%.
7/16/2010 7:57pm
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give it back because he was really an A rider?
ruckus
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7/16/2010 7:59pm
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give...
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give it back because he was really an A rider?
No, i believe that was a friend of his.
Oldskool
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7/16/2010 7:59pm
Whether or not this bike was legal was never the question because that question was not the issue. This bike was claimed.

Read the claiming rule in the AMA rulebook. In amateur MX, a bike can be claimed for MSRP + 30%. The owner MUST let the bike go or it's mandatory disqualification from the event and a 1 year suspension from AMA races.

I understand that Varner's time in this bike was worth over $10K + the parts and the core bike. So, MSRP + 30% on an '03 CR85was STEALING the bike from Alessi.

I would rather not say what I paid for the bike. I know it's worth at least what I paid for it to me or I would not have bought it. I would be happy to sell it to the right person because I am not qualified to do it justice. If I can find the right person, I would make them a great deal. Otherwise, I respect what Varner was doing at the time and that he wanted this bike as his trophy enough that it will stay with me before it will go to someone who would not appreciate it. Of course my 13 year old son is absolutely itching for me to let him flog it.

I honestly don't know what the future is for this bike. It will be determined by who is interested in it. I know it's safe here with me for now. I would like to talk with Varner and Alessi before I do anything with it (and that includes even cleaning it up). However, I don't know either of them but would like to reach out to them if they would allow me to do so. I really don't know how to reach them. I have left a message at Varner Motorsports but Terry may either be too busy to check his voice mail or he may be over it by now. I just don't know until I hear from him. It's my belief that he should own this bike. That is where it belongs (IMO) but right now, I'm happy to have it.
flarider
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7/16/2010 8:00pm
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give...
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give it back because he was really an A rider?
It was his friend Alex Snow from the UK
But they did attend the race together and Snow was staying at Chatfield's home at the time

BobbyM
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7/16/2010 8:02pm
flarider wrote:
That is part of the legend and it was no secret it was retribution Personally, I think it was bullshit Varner had a shitload of time...
That is part of the legend and it was no secret it was retribution

Personally, I think it was bullshit
Varner had a shitload of time into that bike and my understanding was Terry was supposed to get the bike when it was all over, that was his trophy
The Chatfield's jacked Varner, not the Alessi's
did it have some super slick secret EI in it? hehehe Wink
flarider
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7/16/2010 8:03pm
Oldskool wrote:
Whether or not this bike was legal was never the question because that question was not the issue. This bike was claimed. Read the claiming rule...
Whether or not this bike was legal was never the question because that question was not the issue. This bike was claimed.

Read the claiming rule in the AMA rulebook. In amateur MX, a bike can be claimed for MSRP + 30%. The owner MUST let the bike go or it's mandatory disqualification from the event and a 1 year suspension from AMA races.

I understand that Varner's time in this bike was worth over $10K + the parts and the core bike. So, MSRP + 30% on an '03 CR85was STEALING the bike from Alessi.

I would rather not say what I paid for the bike. I know it's worth at least what I paid for it to me or I would not have bought it. I would be happy to sell it to the right person because I am not qualified to do it justice. If I can find the right person, I would make them a great deal. Otherwise, I respect what Varner was doing at the time and that he wanted this bike as his trophy enough that it will stay with me before it will go to someone who would not appreciate it. Of course my 13 year old son is absolutely itching for me to let him flog it.

I honestly don't know what the future is for this bike. It will be determined by who is interested in it. I know it's safe here with me for now. I would like to talk with Varner and Alessi before I do anything with it (and that includes even cleaning it up). However, I don't know either of them but would like to reach out to them if they would allow me to do so. I really don't know how to reach them. I have left a message at Varner Motorsports but Terry may either be too busy to check his voice mail or he may be over it by now. I just don't know until I hear from him. It's my belief that he should own this bike. That is where it belongs (IMO) but right now, I'm happy to have it.
The MSRP +30% is new, they changed that like 3 yrs ago
At the time of this incident, it was Kelly Blue Book + something like 10%

Way cheap



Tiki
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7/16/2010 8:05pm
The claim rule is to keep people honest and not dump huge dollars into a bike and have an unfair advantage. While it sucked, I still feel that way. It's a way to get back at the those with large budget support behind them. That bike may be to spec of the rules, but its had everything done to it within spec.

I remember that on the interweb. It was drama for a week.
7/16/2010 8:05pm
I usally don't pester Tony during race weekends as they are pretty busy as all get out.

But Tony might get a kick at seeing pics of Mike's old bike. They are a pretty sentimental bunch. I will text him about the thread and maybe they can check it out tomorrow evening.
BobbyM
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7/16/2010 8:06pm
flarider wrote:
You own the bike if you win a protest?
For fifty bucks?

That's fucked up



sounds fair if you have cheated
flarider
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7/16/2010 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2010 8:08pm
The aftermath was crazy for a year or so, PC/Team Green riders afraid to race their "A Mod" bikes at AMA events for fear of being claimed.

Riders making threats to claim bikes



There was a lot of fear and paranoia for a while
BobbyM
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7/16/2010 8:10pm
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give...
Isn't Chatfield the one that won a brand new dually in the C class at that series a number of years ago... then had to give it back because he was really an A rider?
david aka alex snow
JoJmoto
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7/16/2010 8:13pm
So oldskool, how did you find it?
pcdoc
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7/16/2010 8:21pm
LOL, I dont think I really understand the claiming rules, or the point to them, if not to prevent cheating. But I am old, and there is that Alzhiemers thing heh

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