CTE caused by repeated hits, not by concussions....

acres951
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1/19/2018 10:34am
At this point, the only truly at risk hockey players that I am aware of are fighters. I have not heard anything related to NHL players...
At this point, the only truly at risk hockey players that I am aware of are fighters. I have not heard anything related to NHL players and CTE unless they were mainly enforcers. This would be a positive for moto, since it's not repeated blows day in and day out.

My high school hockey coach had a brother that fought in the NHL (although he also had some major head injuries) and had a rough life afterwards. Pretty sad story but hopefully something good can come from it.

http://www.startribune.com/jeff-parker-ex-nhler-from-twin-cities-who-is…
acres951 wrote:
FWIW I recall hearing something a year or so ago where researchers thought that the hits in professional hockey (body checking not fights) were enough force...
FWIW I recall hearing something a year or so ago where researchers thought that the hits in professional hockey (body checking not fights) were enough force (at speed then sudden stop) to cause a CTE like effect even if there was no contact with the head.
I may have that wrong and it was just something they were looking into.
In the emergency services world, we say that a car accident has 3 collisions. Car hitting object, body hitting car, and internal organs hitting the body...
In the emergency services world, we say that a car accident has 3 collisions. Car hitting object, body hitting car, and internal organs hitting the body. The brain hits the skull during any abrupt stop so it's very well possible that getting checked could cause CTE. I'm just not aware of any instance. The tough thing is they can't really determine if CTE exists until post mortem and the donated brains tend to come from "high risk" individuals. We really are just scratching the surface with understanding this whole deal.
Makes sense.

Also, I seem to recall a couple of weeks ago where they were able to diagnose CTE in a living person, no?
BobPA
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1/19/2018 10:37am
Belg wrote:
this is reaching a point where it gets ridiculous ! what about soccer ? the head is used as much as feet !
You aren't damaging your brain heading a soccer ball...
I heard the main side effect from soccer is a limp wrist....
ToolMaker
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1/19/2018 11:17am
Just more proof that anything that tastes good or is fun is no good for you!
TM
APLMAN99
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1/19/2018 11:24am
It is starting to get out to the masses now. This thread is proof of it. As soon as I saw this story, I suspected CTE...
It is starting to get out to the masses now. This thread is proof of it.

As soon as I saw this story, I suspected CTE from concussion. This poor kid, who's whole family is quarterbacks, is due to get his turn at starting his Junior year at Washington State and the pressure it too much for him? We may never know now since he blew his head off, but it sounds just like so many NFL stories.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/coroner-rules-hilinski-death-was…
I think head injury could have been a contributing factor, especially when you consider the issue that his head coach had at his last stop dealing with a concussed player and ostracizing him for it.

I don't think we'll ever know what Tyler was going through, and applying logical thought to an act such as suicide doesn't really work.

But based on some of the things that have occurred with Leach and players over the years, I would bet that his interactions with Tyler were a pretty large contributing factor. And while I don't think that it's necessary for a coach to have been a star player, I think that a guy like Leach who has never played a single down of competitive football in his life can't understand when a player is truly hurt the same way that a former player can.

The Shop

colintrax
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1/19/2018 12:07pm
Belg wrote:
this is reaching a point where it gets ridiculous ! what about soccer ? the head is used as much as feet !
You aren't damaging your brain heading a soccer ball...
I remember getting headaches after soccer games from heading the ball. So I'm gonna call bullshit....
kkawboy14
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1/19/2018 12:11pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just more proof that anything that tastes good or is fun is no good for you!
TM
Is this Pop-Tart bad for me?
ToolMaker
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1/19/2018 12:19pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just more proof that anything that tastes good or is fun is no good for you!
TM
kkawboy14 wrote:
Is this Pop-Tart bad for me?
All little teen girls are bad for you at your age. Wink
TM
kkawboy14
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1/19/2018 12:38pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2018 12:43pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just more proof that anything that tastes good or is fun is no good for you!
TM
kkawboy14 wrote:
Is this Pop-Tart bad for me?
ToolMaker wrote:
All little teen girls are bad for you at your age. Wink
TM
Oh man that’s messed up in all kind of ways Smile

I would change it to Krispy Kreme but I’m afraid of what that would produce!
SwingHard
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1/19/2018 1:10pm
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State.
Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And we all know his story. It was reported that he had the worst case of CTE they have ever seen. Was CTE a contributing factor in his behavior, who knows?
davis224
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1/19/2018 1:17pm
There are 2 types of people in this thread...
kkawboy14
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1/19/2018 1:20pm
davis224 wrote:
There are 2 types of people in this thread...
Those with obvious CTE and those about to get it?
kkawboy14
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1/19/2018 1:23pm
SwingHard wrote:
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State. Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And...
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State.
Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And we all know his story. It was reported that he had the worst case of CTE they have ever seen. Was CTE a contributing factor in his behavior, who knows?
Why is it that people with this kind of stuff have to be a gangster shootem up, suicidal tendency personality? Why can’t they be a person that walks little old lady’s across the street, mentors fatherless boys and mow their neighbors lawn for free as a result of CTE?
daemon616
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1/19/2018 1:41pm
File this under no shit sherlock. Did anyone ever think getting hit was a good thing?
Hammer 663s
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1/19/2018 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2018 1:52pm
There was another study outlining youth. It basically showed that elite students showed sudden drastic drop offs in their school performance after just a few seasons...
There was another study outlining youth. It basically showed that elite students showed sudden drastic drop offs in their school performance after just a few seasons of soccer. It was quite significant.

I believe as a result their is a movement to push for heading to be banned at the youth level.
They don't allow heading, nor even practicing it, in my boy's Comp league. He's a U12 player. You can't start until age 13, and I think they will push that out this year further, which I support. I won't let him play football at all.

He's had at least 2 concussions from moto, and one again last week at school at gym. The first one he was only 7, got a Grade 2, was out for a bit and then the repetitive question syndrome for 30 minutes. I take this $hit really serious now and pay very close attention any time he takes a hit to the head. 6d for him, Arai for me.

I don't know how many concussions I've had. At least 10. Played football from HS till I was 30 (european leagues), got back into moto at 40, I'm 55 now. And now they say that it's not concussions we need to focus on, it's any impact to the head/brain, and it's cumulative.

Might explain a lot about Vitards. Smile

Mike
SwingHard
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1/19/2018 1:53pm
SwingHard wrote:
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State. Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And...
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State.
Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And we all know his story. It was reported that he had the worst case of CTE they have ever seen. Was CTE a contributing factor in his behavior, who knows?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Why is it that people with this kind of stuff have to be a gangster shootem up, suicidal tendency personality? Why can’t they be a person...
Why is it that people with this kind of stuff have to be a gangster shootem up, suicidal tendency personality? Why can’t they be a person that walks little old lady’s across the street, mentors fatherless boys and mow their neighbors lawn for free as a result of CTE?
The youngman from Washington State, I'm pretty sure he was not a "Gangster".
I think its been proven,CTE has caused otherwise rationale people to do some pretty irrational things.
kkawboy14
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1/19/2018 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2018 2:42pm
SwingHard wrote:
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State. Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And...
I'm with you on this one! Such a sad deal for this young man from Washington State.
Aaron Hernandez stopped playing Football at 23 yrs.old. And we all know his story. It was reported that he had the worst case of CTE they have ever seen. Was CTE a contributing factor in his behavior, who knows?
kkawboy14 wrote:
Why is it that people with this kind of stuff have to be a gangster shootem up, suicidal tendency personality? Why can’t they be a person...
Why is it that people with this kind of stuff have to be a gangster shootem up, suicidal tendency personality? Why can’t they be a person that walks little old lady’s across the street, mentors fatherless boys and mow their neighbors lawn for free as a result of CTE?
SwingHard wrote:
The youngman from Washington State, I'm pretty sure he was not a "Gangster". I think its been proven,CTE has caused otherwise rationale people to do some...
The youngman from Washington State, I'm pretty sure he was not a "Gangster".
I think its been proven,CTE has caused otherwise rationale people to do some pretty irrational things.
I get it but it’s weird to me that it’s always self destructive. Never constructive.

Interesting that they are feeling that steroids, alcohol and illicit drug use are factors that seem to increase the likelihood of CTE
Johnny Depp
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1/19/2018 3:04pm
Stop the swelling inside the skull asap.

No blood thinners (aspirin) for at least a day, they can increase the swelling.

I'm not a Dr., but I believe in sharing knowledge in a forum.
DanDunes818
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1/19/2018 4:26pm
I never wore a single cast from a broken bones and in 15 years of racing up to a decent level and 40 years of riding, but during my days of pushing my limits on a bike, I suffered 9 concussions [that I positively know I was unconscious) from crashes. In that same time period, I had 1 concussion from a fight (was never a good fighter), 1 from a weird bicycle crash and 1 from car accident. It got to a point where it just didn't take much for lights out and racing the next moto or the next day after a concussion was never a big deal. There's probably more, because I know there were quite a few times where my pops would tell me "I rung my bell" and wasn't knocked out.

All in all, I had 12 out cold concussions that I know about in about a 15 year span and I have recently (I'm 46) suffered from some pretty noticeable memory loss. Bad enough to where I try really hard to remember numerous reasonably close friends names and even 3-4 roommates that I lived with for nearly a year from that time period, and I get nothing--just a complete blank. If somebody else remembers their names it starts coming back, but if not I cannot remember their names, faces, nothing. Recently, I have been experiencing quite a few other symptoms of CTE, but have never asked a doctor about it. I just never thought much of it other than "getting older" until all this recent CTE stuff.

tcallahan707
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1/19/2018 5:44pm
acres951 wrote:
FWIW I recall hearing something a year or so ago where researchers thought that the hits in professional hockey (body checking not fights) were enough force...
FWIW I recall hearing something a year or so ago where researchers thought that the hits in professional hockey (body checking not fights) were enough force (at speed then sudden stop) to cause a CTE like effect even if there was no contact with the head.
I may have that wrong and it was just something they were looking into.
In the emergency services world, we say that a car accident has 3 collisions. Car hitting object, body hitting car, and internal organs hitting the body...
In the emergency services world, we say that a car accident has 3 collisions. Car hitting object, body hitting car, and internal organs hitting the body. The brain hits the skull during any abrupt stop so it's very well possible that getting checked could cause CTE. I'm just not aware of any instance. The tough thing is they can't really determine if CTE exists until post mortem and the donated brains tend to come from "high risk" individuals. We really are just scratching the surface with understanding this whole deal.
acres951 wrote:
Makes sense.

Also, I seem to recall a couple of weeks ago where they were able to diagnose CTE in a living person, no?
I vaguely recall hearing this but I can't remember any details (too many head injuries?) so I'm not confident enough to post it on Vital.
tcallahan707
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1/19/2018 5:45pm
Belg wrote:
this is reaching a point where it gets ridiculous ! what about soccer ? the head is used as much as feet !
You aren't damaging your brain heading a soccer ball...
colintrax wrote:
I remember getting headaches after soccer games from heading the ball. So I'm gonna call bullshit....
You didn't read the whole thread did you? Just stopped at the first opportunity to poke holes in a post and had to reply eh?
tcallahan707
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1/19/2018 5:47pm
davis224 wrote:
There are 2 types of people in this thread...
Is anti-science one of them? Seems to be a microcosm of the world we live in...
1/19/2018 5:53pm
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused his CTE, cancer, heart failure, etc." Pastrana could live to be 100 with no neurological deficits.

People who smoke every day still live to be 100 and perfectly healthy kids get cancer. People walk out of doctors offices with a clean bill of health and drop dead the next day.

1/19/2018 6:23pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2018 6:24pm
davis224 wrote:
There are 2 types of people in this thread...
Is anti-science one of them? Seems to be a microcosm of the world we live in...
This was exactly my thought when I read Davis224's comment. Science is exploratory by definition and the process is iterative. The goal is simply to disprove a hypothesis in an area through iterative testing and then report the findings. This increases our collective understanding of all aspects of life and the world around us. The publication of a study or a news report on the findings shouldn't be viewed as threatening or induce knee-jerk reaction to start throwing shit at each other. It's just information and the choice of whether you change your behavior or activities because of it is yours to make.
ga_pike
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1/19/2018 6:24pm
Motocross? Check. Hockey? Check. Football? Check. Boxing? Check.

Yeah, I'm screwed.
1/19/2018 6:51pm
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused...
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused his CTE, cancer, heart failure, etc." Pastrana could live to be 100 with no neurological deficits.

People who smoke every day still live to be 100 and perfectly healthy kids get cancer. People walk out of doctors offices with a clean bill of health and drop dead the next day.

Shut up with your logical sense. We are trying to save lives here by forcing everyone to live in an inflatable bubble. Bet the bubblers still die between 60-100 years old with various forms of dementia, or of totally sound mind.


If we only got one life to live.....let us do whatever the hell we wanna do.
tcallahan707
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1/19/2018 6:54pm
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused...
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused his CTE, cancer, heart failure, etc." Pastrana could live to be 100 with no neurological deficits.

People who smoke every day still live to be 100 and perfectly healthy kids get cancer. People walk out of doctors offices with a clean bill of health and drop dead the next day.

Laughing Ever heard of the phrase "exception, not the rule"? Your post is short sighted. Research helps us understand our world better, and it's cumulative effect is that we have less and less exceptions because we understand the rule so well. We have literally eradicated some diseases that used to kill people from the planet. But that doesn't mean anything right?

The real issue is all the noise that gets in the way of the research. Science takes a backseat to many other things like politics, emotions, and money. C_Class_Hero said it well.
tcallahan707
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1/19/2018 6:59pm
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused...
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused his CTE, cancer, heart failure, etc." Pastrana could live to be 100 with no neurological deficits.

People who smoke every day still live to be 100 and perfectly healthy kids get cancer. People walk out of doctors offices with a clean bill of health and drop dead the next day.

Shut up with your logical sense. We are trying to save lives here by forcing everyone to live in an inflatable bubble. Bet the bubblers still...
Shut up with your logical sense. We are trying to save lives here by forcing everyone to live in an inflatable bubble. Bet the bubblers still die between 60-100 years old with various forms of dementia, or of totally sound mind.


If we only got one life to live.....let us do whatever the hell we wanna do.
Vital at it's finest.

"Improve safety equipment but don't do research and force me to live in a bubble."
APLMAN99
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1/19/2018 7:26pm
I never wore a single cast from a broken bones and in 15 years of racing up to a decent level and 40 years of riding...
I never wore a single cast from a broken bones and in 15 years of racing up to a decent level and 40 years of riding, but during my days of pushing my limits on a bike, I suffered 9 concussions [that I positively know I was unconscious) from crashes. In that same time period, I had 1 concussion from a fight (was never a good fighter), 1 from a weird bicycle crash and 1 from car accident. It got to a point where it just didn't take much for lights out and racing the next moto or the next day after a concussion was never a big deal. There's probably more, because I know there were quite a few times where my pops would tell me "I rung my bell" and wasn't knocked out.

All in all, I had 12 out cold concussions that I know about in about a 15 year span and I have recently (I'm 46) suffered from some pretty noticeable memory loss. Bad enough to where I try really hard to remember numerous reasonably close friends names and even 3-4 roommates that I lived with for nearly a year from that time period, and I get nothing--just a complete blank. If somebody else remembers their names it starts coming back, but if not I cannot remember their names, faces, nothing. Recently, I have been experiencing quite a few other symptoms of CTE, but have never asked a doctor about it. I just never thought much of it other than "getting older" until all this recent CTE stuff.

With 12 concussions resulting in loss of consciousness, I'd start investing in adult diapers and bibs for your later years......
oldblood
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1/19/2018 7:27pm
It's obvious, testosterone causes CTE.
TESTOSTERONE is to blame!
1/19/2018 7:31pm
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused...
It still doesnt really mean anything. It seems like research is conducted just so we can point our finger at something and say, "that's what caused his CTE, cancer, heart failure, etc." Pastrana could live to be 100 with no neurological deficits.

People who smoke every day still live to be 100 and perfectly healthy kids get cancer. People walk out of doctors offices with a clean bill of health and drop dead the next day.

Shut up with your logical sense. We are trying to save lives here by forcing everyone to live in an inflatable bubble. Bet the bubblers still...
Shut up with your logical sense. We are trying to save lives here by forcing everyone to live in an inflatable bubble. Bet the bubblers still die between 60-100 years old with various forms of dementia, or of totally sound mind.


If we only got one life to live.....let us do whatever the hell we wanna do.
Im all for freedom of choice.

The problem with this topic is, once CTE sets in, you're no longer making "choices". You will exhibit behaviour that is not yours. Things get out of your control. Others could get hurt.

But dont get me wrong, Im a huge proponent of natural selection. Kids wanna eat Tide Pods? Have at it. That's 5 less idiots I have to deal with in traffic on the freeway from now on.

But I also want the information available. I dont want to bury my head in the sand on any topic. It doesnt help any of us.

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