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Chadillac661 Chadillac661
8/26/2015 2:03 AM

I have been desperately trying to avoid opening my big mouth and venting my frustrations about this product (and the industry in general) but I can't hold back, so here it goes. Top off the flame-throwers, I'm ready to do battle.

I have always been a huge fan of two stroke racing because of the simplicity, reliability and affordability aspect. Because of this, I have always been a fan of FMF because they have supported this segment of the market for the same reasons. Kudos to them, we need more companies like this that "get it" and back the return of the smokers. The problem lies in the fact that the industry is realizing that the consumer is conditioned to spending thousands and thousands instead of hundreds because of the 4Turds and now they are trying to take advantage of it. This is not a good thing.

The reason people ride 2-strokes:

1. They can afford to

2. They are simple and cheap

3. In many cases they are faster (and always lighter)

4. They are reliable.

Enter the FMF Titanium 2.1:

In the world of bolting on billet, anodized engine plugs, skid plates, shark fins, 5lb billet hubs made in China, exhaust systems that make less HP than stock (most of them) and all kinds of anodized, CNC bullshit that only ADD weight to your 275lb 4-turd, this 2 stroke silencer tops the charts in regards to marketing "horse-shit"

(I JUST WANT TO DISCLOSE THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS)

1. This silencer is twice as big as stock, and that is being kind. If I bought a John Deere lawn mower with an exhaust that big I would be pissed. On a 2-stroke?

Really?

Why?

The body is made of Titanium, stock is aluminum. It's simple math, Ti is 50% the weight of steel, Aluminum is 30% the weight of steel. Contrary to what most people think, Ti is NOT lighter than aluminum. If anything this silencer is 1.5 lbs HEAVIER than stock, not 1.5 lbs lighter.

Selling $400 titanium silencers that are as big as a four-stroke will not help this sport!

This is not the best answer to the sports biggest problem (affordability).

Considering the fact that most 2 stroke aftermarket exhaust companies have been pushing "shorty" silencers for years, this is a big change. If you really understand two strokes, shorty silencers are the kiss of death for most two stroke powerbands (MOST) and they almost guarantee you will loose 1000-1500 rpm in over-rev, a two strokes best friend. If most riders really understood how two strokes worked and they did their homework and tested back to back, they would see in most cases stock is best, or at least the stock length silencer is best.

Building billet, anodized, CNC infested boat anchors that perform at a lower level than stock is not in the sports best interest, whether it involves two strokes or four. Yet the sport seems obsessed with it. Its amusing to see how people react to a bunch of anodized Chinese parts that weigh double the amount of the stock ones, and at the same time actually thinking it improves the performance of the motorcycle, pretty comical.

It's refreshing to see that the aftermarket is finally realizing that its impossible to saw 2" off of a two stroke exhaust system without detrimental effects to the power-band but on the other side of the coin, to see them try to charge $200-$250 more for the correct length exhaust silencer is a joke.

I am willing to bet $1000 cash that part #1 weighs more than part #2?

I would be willing to bet another $1000 cash the dyno numbers are within 1/2 HP on both parts.

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Job #1 is to keep two stroke racing affordable or we will be right back where we started with the 4-turds and the sport will continue to die a slow painful death. Selling $400 two stroke silencers that are not an improvement over stock is not how we do that.

We need to tend to the roots or the trees will die. Stamp It.

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Olson Olson
8/26/2015 2:14 AM
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It's rude to talk about religion. You never know who you're gonna offend

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Chadillac661 Chadillac661
8/26/2015 2:17 AM
Olson wrote:

It's a 3 stroke?

That's pretty big, maybe a 5 stroke?

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rocketsocks26 rocketsocks26
8/26/2015 2:21 AM

very well put! im in the wrong aswell I bought that sexy carbon fiber pro circuit silencer and it fell apart in a couple rides! THEY did send me a new one but im keeping it for when I sell the bike. Never did understand the shorty craze either.

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rocketsocks26 rocketsocks26
8/26/2015 2:22 AM
Olson wrote:

Chadillac661 wrote:

It's a 3 stroke?

That's ...more

that's a "moosecock"

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Crush Crush
8/26/2015 2:33 AM
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Cheers, Crush
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Chadillac661 Chadillac661
8/26/2015 2:37 AM
Crush wrote:

That's what I am talking about....

That's how a real two stroke should look.

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Olson Olson
8/26/2015 2:41 AM

It's simple. It's supply and demand. If people want to spend hundreds of dollars on things they don't need manufacturers will continue to produce it and increase the price untill the sales drop. And that is exactly what the consumers will do. Especially in this sport. It's been a dick measuring contest for a long time. Coolest bike, coolest gear and largest motorhome wins in the paddock.

This is what I got for my 2-stroke. Decent price at $160 retail price and same lenght as stock. Fills the purpose and looks good (which clearly matters). So FMF still offers a lot of good products that the general consumers want in the correct price category.

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It's rude to talk about religion. You never know who you're gonna offend

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Slosh 112 Slosh 112
8/26/2015 2:42 AM

You sure the body is titanium? because in their 4 stroke range the canister is anodised aluminium, the end cap, core and tail pipe are the titanium parts...

But i am going to measure & weigh my stock silencer and see what the difference is to my shorty.

Vision Race Preparation.

Ceramic coatings, Suspension, Mechanical, Spoked wheels.

facebook & Instagram @vision_race_preparation

Personal Instagram @_yabba_dabba_dont_






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Crush Crush
8/26/2015 2:54 AM
Chadillac661 wrote:

That's what I am talking ...more

Damn straight!

My next two stroke has one of them and a works pipe! SEXY!

Cheers, Crush
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nascarnate326 nascarnate326
8/26/2015 3:14 AM

I couldn't agree more OP. Sadly it's all about looks and status.

I use a Pro Circuit Nature Friendly exhaust. Does its job at sound db levels and has a spark arrestor so I don't turn Michigans forest info California.

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The Narrator The Narrator
8/26/2015 4:11 AM

The part that is being overlooked are the ridiculously strict European sound standards that some companies try to adhere to.

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GIwasB4 GIwasB4
8/26/2015 4:20 AM

^^ The story teller gets it.

I was G before the "moto drive" to Vital

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Underground Underground
8/26/2015 4:20 AM

A lot of contradiction in here. I was right with you on the shorty fad but then shorties are good or bad? Expensive titanium is bad but expensive and brittle carbon fiber isn't? What about those that need to keep the noise at lower levels due to race or neighbour restrictions? You should feel the weight of a standard length KTM EXC 2 stroke muffler. I'll weight one for you tomorrow if you like. Are you still good for the thouie?

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Underground Underground
8/26/2015 4:25 AM

And they still make the standard length aluminum body steel core mufflers if you have to spend money on a budget. No-one's holding a gun to your head. Or you could just use the standard MX muffler which are pretty damn good these days, and even take an inch off it to good effect like I did on many of my 90's bikes with the racing budget I had back then.

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Underground Underground
8/26/2015 4:27 AM
The Narrator wrote:

The part that is being ...more

Yep

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tmauto769 tmauto769
8/26/2015 4:28 AM

so they quit making the aluminum ones? that sucks. At least in 4t you get to chose aluminum or Ti. and this "Contrary to what most people think, Ti is NOT lighter than steel" your right I always thought Ti was lighter than steel, oh wait I did find this somewhere "Steel is corrosive, rusts, stains, and is heavier than titanium. Steel’s density is 7.85 g/cm3, and titanium has 56% that of steel." hmm...

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GIwasB4 GIwasB4
8/26/2015 4:31 AM
Olson wrote:

Chadillac661 wrote:

It's a 3 stroke?

That's ...more

If it were as quiet as a weed eater you might have more places to ride your affordable dirt bike.

I was G before the "moto drive" to Vital

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Underground Underground
8/26/2015 4:39 AM

I'd take a heavy, stock and quiet muffler or $400 Ti muffler over a 5 hour drive to Bumfaurk just to ride my bike due to noise complaints that closed all the local riding areas.

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Bearuno Bearuno
8/26/2015 5:18 AM

FMF are just offering up an ultra expensive, 'blinged up' muffler for blokes that want such a thing. Now, I think it's a bit silly, but people can do whatever they want with their money, and their bikes. 4Ts have really brought on a standard, if you like, of very high prices for mufflers, and manufacturers are just offering up opportunities to those that want to spend a lot of money.


Euro noise standards are are good thing - the old old saying - " less sound = more ground" is even more relevant today than it was in the 70s when I first heard / saw it.

I'm quite fantatical about making my Bikes quiet - I live right on the edge of suburbia and the Mountains here, and have ridden in the area for well over 40 years, and will continue to do so as long as I can. I make my own , long, Long mufflers, run Full chamber protectors that also quell my 500 2ts resonance, And an all enveloping aluminium drop tank. My 500 sounds like a moped, which means I can ride right near houses that have found their way into the mountains here, yet no one knows I'm there. Yet, you get the local dickheads that scream up and down the fire trails, on their MX sound level mufflers on their CRFXs / WRs / EXCs et al, that get nailed by the cops, after pissing off the local residents. And, I have to say it, pissing me off with their god awful noise. I'll pop out of the single track, and the cops, that know me / my bike, just wave me on / or just have a chat with me.

I always have a bit of a chuckle at the claims that such and such 2t muffler makes so much power over the other one, especially when I check stinger / core lengths and IDs. Given the same or very similar specs for those two items, on a straight through core, with the same type of 'pack' , you'll get no noticeable difference. Hell, I can't feel any power loss on my 500, between my own 625mm length muffler, and my 300mm or less length FMF / PC and 'other brand' mufflers from my mispent middle years racing 500s. But, I do admit, in my terrain, I doubt I ever get above about 3k in revs, other than when, sometimes, I come home via a short stretch of freeway, when I occasionally give the old girl the berries - and the long , quiet muffler doesn't slow things down.

2 strokes are so easy to make quiet, without messing up the power - 4ts, well they are the difficult ones to make quiet, without messing with power / having a boat anchor hanging off the bike.

There's a market for expensive, fancy mufflers and manufacturers are just making such things available to the 2t riders that want them. So long as reasonably priced pipes / mufflers remain available, let people spend up bigger than most of us see the need to.

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sandman768 sandman768
8/26/2015 5:36 AM
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ti shorty on ktm 300, cracked, had it welded, cracked again, now a paper weight, back to standard alum shorty, Ti good for factory guys or garage queens but not for every day use. I dont fault FMF, consumer demands it, they build it. I will continue to buy FMF until I"m done riding, they offered to have me send it back, I just ordered an alum shorty, after shipping & dicking around it was cheaper... this reminds me, I have to order a gnarely for my xc 300 today!
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early early
8/26/2015 5:36 AM

Shortys are made as a tuning option to move the power down the rpm range. Not everyone is looking for over rev.

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KTMShane699 KTMShane699
8/26/2015 5:36 AM

I'm a little confused. You praise a company for supporting two strokes, but then chastise them for offering options at different price points. It sounds to me like they're doing a great job of offering a product that fits the needs of whatever the customer wants.

Want titanium? Done. Want aluminum? Done. Long? Sure. Short? No problem. Anodized? They have that covered as well.

As far as weight goes, the straight weights aren't an accurate comparison. A lighter material that's stronger can utilize less of it and achieve the same strength at less weight. So your comparison of weights is somewhat skewed in this context. On my four stroke, the titanium exhaust shaved 2.5 pounds off the stock system which was steel/aluminum.

I do agree (somewhat) with the way we've been trained by companies to purchase more expensive products. Retail on a titanium full system for a four stroke can run north of $1,000. Some of this I'm sure is greed from the manufacturers, but they've also never forced me to make a purchase. I have the freedom to decide what I want to put on my bike.

Instead of complaining about FMF making an expensive titanium silencer that doesn't seem to fit your needs, why not give them credit for making a variety of products to meet a bunch of people's needs? At least they continue to develop new products and fill a need in the market outside of the typical "long or short" silencer options.

Without companies like FMF pushing forward, development would be stalled or possibly even going backwards. Kudos to them for offering choices outside of the normal.

Shane

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10000hrs 10000hrs
8/26/2015 5:56 AM

As mentioned above, the density of steel is more than titanium. But if you use thicker sections you dont necessarily end up lighter.

Titanium shines in the strength to weight ratio for the common metals, so you should be able to use thinner sheets to get the same strength which should result in a much lighter product.

So as I have not bought a muffler product in ages, please educate me. Dont the OEM's list weight, peak hp ( or dyno chart), and sound test data in their specs? I know I would not buy one with out ths data listed for comparison to stock and each other. Unless of course, I was buying it for coolness, which I wouldnt.

Avoiding JS7 threads since 3/7/17.

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logan_140 logan_140
8/26/2015 5:59 AM
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hillbilly hillbilly
8/26/2015 6:05 AM
KTMShane699 wrote:

I'm a little confused. You ...more

Took me 3 shots of likker to get thru it but i got it now. Now i just dont give a shit.

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OnRails OnRails
8/26/2015 6:12 AM

LOL this guy is mad about exhaust being big. Obviously has no idea what goes on behind the tech. And then makes a stupid 2 stroke thread. Disappear!!!

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holeshot100 holeshot100
8/26/2015 6:14 AM

Thanks for the great report on the FMF 2 stroke silencer! I can't wait for your report on the Pro Circuit, Akrapovic, Bills, DG, Yoshimura, and Leo Vince. I really like all the facts and all the testing that was performed.

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KTMShane699 KTMShane699
8/26/2015 6:31 AM
hillbilly wrote:

Took me 3 shots of likker ...more

Hope you're drinking good liquor at least.

Shane

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MtnBoy MtnBoy
8/26/2015 6:36 AM
Crush wrote:
Chadillac661 wrote:

That's what I am talking ...more

So what is it?

Shorty silencers are junk that has been pushed on us or they are how a 2 stroke is supposed to look?

You seem to be telling your story both ways...

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