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C50_profile_1424660203 ML512 Quote
10/4/2017 10:53 AM

As I tried to explain multiple times in the other thread regarding this, the retaining collar/cup packed with mud, split and failed...

Here's Honda PR regarding the issue. I think I'm going to do a video on this, trying to gather the correct part so I can explain how this happens.

Team Honda HRC Addresses Motocross of Nations Shock Failure
TORRANCE, Calif. (October 4, 2017) – Team Honda HRC today confirmed that the double DNFs by Cole Seely during the Motocross of Nations at Matterley Basin in Winchester, England, last Sunday were caused by identical shock-absorber failures on his CRF450R. Seely was forced to withdraw from the muddy first and third motos after the spring holder on his factory KYB shock became dislodged, allowing the spring to drop.

“Clearly, we’re very disappointed by what happened at the Motocross of Nations,” said Takashi “Sam” Mishima, Manager of Motorcycle Sports at American Honda. “The factory KYB shock on our bike uses a cup-shaped spring collar with a slot where it slides over the shaft, and when the mud packed on the bottoming bumper during the first moto, enough force built up to shift the collar out of place. We used this same setup the entire AMA Pro Motocross season, including at muddy races like Unadilla, but this was the first time we experienced this issue. We replaced the entire shock for Cole’s final moto, but the same problem occurred again. Normally with issues like this, it’s difficult to even recreate them again, so the fact that this problem occurred twice on the same day suggests there was something particular about the Matterley Basin track layout and/or the consistency of the mud that created the perfect conditions for the problem. Honda customers should know that the retaining system on the production Showa CRF450R shock is different; in fact, the system is the same as that on the factory Showa shock used by our MXGP counterparts at Team HRC, whose bikes didn’t experience this issue at the Motocross of Nations. Obviously, we’ll look into this along with KYB and address it for next season, but in the meantime, we offer our sincere apologies to Cole, and to American motocross fans for the fact that Team USA’s results were so significantly impacted by this issue.”

KYB would also like to acknowledge the impact the failure had on the U.S. effort and offer their apologies to the MX community. Countermeasures and design updates are currently being instituted to insure this type of situation does not happen again. KYB adds that only factory KYB-issued parts for HRC factory bikes and race teams are affected.

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C50_master_1471233043 scooterwhipmoore Quote
10/4/2017 10:56 AM

That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!

C50 kkawboy14 Quote
10/4/2017 11:06 AM

Ok I give!

C50_our458small_1461106471 mark911 Quote
10/4/2017 11:06 AM

So if the cause of the problem is so obvious to guys like you and me, why didn't the team take at least some remedial action to prevent it for the second race? You know what they say about expecting a different outcome when nothing else changes (like just replacing the shock with the another one and hoping).

Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

C50_img_2348_1515715375 GPrider Quote
10/4/2017 11:07 AM

idk ML512. It's a dead horse at this point and the vitards your are trying to convince are not going to listen anyway...

C50_stewart_1451774253 kongols Quote
10/4/2017 11:10 AM

They read your post in here and worked the statement around it, lol.

Good job.

C50_img_2026 mxmasta Quote
10/4/2017 11:20 AM

Good for Honda that Roczen couldn’t race. Imagine both of their bikes failing in both motos at Matterley with the same issue...

"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

C50 Acidreamer Quote
10/4/2017 11:24 AM

Has anyone heard of a team blame the dirt for their bike failing? Has to be a first right?

2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

C50_manners171_1505055582 twotwosix Quote
10/4/2017 11:27 AM

Isn't this same style collar used on many different works KYB shocks on various brands?

C50_last_of_us_fireflies_white_1455383674 Firefly47 Quote
10/4/2017 11:31 AM

A dirt bike.
On a track made of dirt.
Failed to finish a race due to dirt.

C50_jefro98_1392581758 Jefro98 Quote
10/4/2017 11:33 AM

The mud at Matterley was the stickiest mud I have ever seen. I would not fall off the bikes, just cloth up.
I can imagine the US mechanics did not expect this to happen.

During Sunday morning warm up the track was a mess. Luckily it became a bit better during the day.

C50_windham TriRacer27 Quote
10/4/2017 11:34 AM
Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team ...more


They definitely made sure to point out it was a KYB component. They mentioned KYB 6 times in that statement, and Hondas come with Showas.

C50_img_0230_1482169070 mattyhamz2 Quote
10/4/2017 11:34 AM
scooterwhipmoore wrote:

That's two years in a row ...more

Hahaha this made me laugh

2014 YZ450F
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time

C50_jefro98_1392581758 Jefro98 Quote
10/4/2017 11:37 AM

So can't really speak of dirt anymore.
More a bike packed with clay.
Check the chain on Herlings bike and the big pile of clay hanging under the fender.

C50_barcia_2018_yamaha_octopi_0248_753x411_1514033629 51xc Quote
10/4/2017 11:44 AM

btw. what is cole getting surgery on?

C50_20638892_10101458714461563_6915231640403878181_n_1503456844 theycallmeebryan Quote
10/4/2017 11:45 AM

Why didn't other brands using a KYB shock experience a similar issue? Was Cole the only Honda out there using a factory KYB shock?

C50_308120_480641605294272_1754822551_n scottydogmx Quote
10/4/2017 11:54 AM

What suspension did Gasjer use?

C50 motardchris Quote
10/4/2017 12:02 PM
twotwosix wrote:

Isn't this same style ...more

No. The Honda uses a shorter shock and different collar than all other brands. You can see the difference in the photo below

C50 motardchris Quote
10/4/2017 12:03 PM

C50 David934 Quote
10/4/2017 12:06 PM

How many bikes were Sunday on the track - 110?

16 Yamaha YZ450F
94 Honda CR 500
90 Honda CR 500
81 Yamaha SR 500
68 BSA Thunderbolt

C50_profile_1424660203 ML512 Quote
10/4/2017 12:08 PM
theycallmeebryan wrote:

Why didn't other brands ...more

He was the only Honda using KYB at MXoN and the bumper cup/retainer on the Honda/KYB version is a bit different than on the other brands. In the others, the cup and retainer clips are separate items and this version it's one piece and has area for the mud to sit in the cup.

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C50_profile_1424660203 ML512 Quote
10/4/2017 12:11 PM
scottydogmx wrote:

What suspension did Gasjer ...more


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C50_89154940_1278798186 MelonFan123 Quote
10/4/2017 12:14 PM
scooterwhipmoore wrote:

That's two years in a row ...more

C50_cr3a3462_1424013006 arvid Quote
10/4/2017 12:15 PM

Here is cup/retainer drilled
C50_cr3a3462_1424013006 arvid Quote
10/4/2017 12:16 PM

no way that is so going to help in those muddy conditions

C50_image_1448925443 JM485 Quote
10/4/2017 12:26 PM
Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team ...more

They aren't blaming dirt, they simply stated that an abnormal set of occurrences presented themselves and caused a failure. It's real easy to sit there and be an armchair engineer with inpecible hindsight, but the bottom line is things happen and will continue to happen until the end of time, not every single situation can be thought of and tested for in a situation like this.

As for them not doing anything but change the shock between motos, ya, I think that was definitely a failure on someone's part to think clearly in the heat of the moment.

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C50_colton_wheelie_avatar_1411752311 Xeno Quote
10/4/2017 12:29 PM

How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice?
ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have the time, right?

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C50_img_8735_1506991758 seth505 Quote
10/4/2017 12:31 PM

"We are very sorry, IT WAS KYB! By the way, these aren't production parts or Showa parts. Lastly, KYB is sorry as well."

C50_s1600_villopoto1_1426123241 pilotdude Quote
10/4/2017 12:35 PM
Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team ...more

JM485 wrote:

They aren't blaming dirt, ...more

I really have no issue with the first failure as shit does happen and Murphy's Law is forever. But to not take very strong preventative measures to ensure the same failure did not happen a second time, and simply change the part that broke out is absolutely off the charts.

Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.

C50_img_3300_1517772835 MX Guy Quote
10/4/2017 12:39 PM

Over it already, we fvqqin lost again, period

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