Have other manufacturers stopped trying?

Thisusernameisavailable 6/17/2017 11:08pm
6/17/2017 11:08pm
2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:
Do you think it's the bikes winning the championships?
es337 wrote:
uh yeah, what bikes do you think are winning the championships right now?
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning.
KRoc won last year on a bike that's considered old. You could've put him on any bike last year and the result would be the same.

And the same applies now- put these winning riders on any bike and they'll still be winning.

It's not the bike that's winning.
fullysicmate 6/17/2017 11:17pm
6/17/2017 11:17pm
2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:
Do you think it's the bikes winning the championships?
es337 wrote:
uh yeah, what bikes do you think are winning the championships right now?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning. KRoc won last year on a bike that's...
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning.
KRoc won last year on a bike that's considered old. You could've put him on any bike last year and the result would be the same.

And the same applies now- put these winning riders on any bike and they'll still be winning.

It's not the bike that's winning.
You are 95% correct and that is why we all love MX.....

However, the other 5% says Tomac would be the 2017 SX champ if he was riding a bike with electric start!

15 pounds less weight may have helped him a little as well Whistling
markit
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markit 6/17/2017 11:21pm
6/17/2017 11:21pm
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
Oddly didn't seam to affect the Europeans, many titles on PDS across the pond. To many crybabies in moto during that time.
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731chopper 6/17/2017 11:33pm
6/17/2017 11:33pm
markit wrote:
Oddly didn't seam to affect the Europeans, many titles on PDS across the pond. To many crybabies in moto during that time.
Yeah McGrath was such a crybaby...

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dirtaddict 6/18/2017 12:26am
6/18/2017 12:26am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2017 12:27am
JB479 wrote:
Its certainly hard to complete with ktm/husky when the production bike is better (in my opinion) then the others. Especially when the 250f has 4-6hp on...
Its certainly hard to complete with ktm/husky when the production bike is better (in my opinion) then the others.
Especially when the 250f has 4-6hp on the rest of the brands. I don't know how japan factory teams can build a competitive motor when there motor is handicapped from the start. If you look at europe MX2 nearly every holeshot this year has been a ktm/husky. Although in america Jeremy martin seems to have his honda dialled with starts.



all those top 20 bikes are fast enough to win on even those slow hondas . a couple horse power here or there make little difference to them and even less on 450s
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VRR7 6/18/2017 12:55am
6/18/2017 12:55am
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
markit wrote:
Oddly didn't seam to affect the Europeans, many titles on PDS across the pond. To many crybabies in moto during that time.
Not one mx1 or 450 ama mx title was won on pds! They only won that class when they added a linkage. Roger fixed the bike for ktm. Kenny left KTM cos the bike was pos old Suzuki was a better bike than newer KTM. It's all about focus KTM are focused on mxgp from riders to mxgp organization . Honda for a long time as a factory have not even participated at all . They have only woken up recently to see what effect this marketing strategy has had for KTM and begun to put effort back into mxgp even Dakar. Ktm/husqvarna have done brilliant in the last round of AMA sx ! Many bikes at top compared to Japan models. Honda had bad lucky with Kenny for sure but ktm/husky had RD JA BB MM all winning races ... I would say it's about focus where and how you focus your attention. Moto3 for example is all Honda right now started as KTM. I think they noticed KTM has them in there cross hairs . Like when you wear number one plate. Early KTM copied Honda a lot that you could but Honda parts and use them in the KTM exact copy. So yes good for KTM they have some an excellent job and are makinmaking huge marketing ground while Honda sell cars and jets ... I think Honda has responded maybe too late ? The 2018 CRF250R suggests they are paying attention.
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JustMX 6/18/2017 3:39am
6/18/2017 3:39am
es337 wrote:
uh yeah, what bikes do you think are winning the championships right now?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning. KRoc won last year on a bike that's...
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning.
KRoc won last year on a bike that's considered old. You could've put him on any bike last year and the result would be the same.

And the same applies now- put these winning riders on any bike and they'll still be winning.

It's not the bike that's winning.
fullysicmate wrote:
You are 95% correct and that is why we all love MX..... However, the other 5% says Tomac would be the 2017 SX champ if he...
You are 95% correct and that is why we all love MX.....

However, the other 5% says Tomac would be the 2017 SX champ if he was riding a bike with electric start!

15 pounds less weight may have helped him a little as well Whistling
It isn't all about horsepower....

Tomac would be 2017 sx champ, and would be leading mx points if his brakes were more dependable
Andy_Greenney 6/18/2017 3:46am
6/18/2017 3:46am
Their road to domination started in 2001, had a 2002 125sx and that bike absolutely run circles around the cr125 and yz125 I had at the time
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LumpDog841 6/18/2017 4:26am
6/18/2017 4:26am
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
Roger Decoster admitted to saying/thinking the same thing in a recent interview. So is he a Red Neck?
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Dtat720 6/18/2017 4:47am
6/18/2017 4:47am
JB479 wrote:
Its certainly hard to complete with ktm/husky when the production bike is better (in my opinion) then the others. Especially when the 250f has 4-6hp on...
Its certainly hard to complete with ktm/husky when the production bike is better (in my opinion) then the others.
Especially when the 250f has 4-6hp on the rest of the brands. I don't know how japan factory teams can build a competitive motor when there motor is handicapped from the start. If you look at europe MX2 nearly every holeshot this year has been a ktm/husky. Although in america Jeremy martin seems to have his honda dialled with starts.



kzizok wrote:
In all fairness, half of the class in MX2 is made up of KTM/Husky's.
Yep. Dilute the field, better your odds for wins
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Flip109 6/18/2017 5:15am
6/18/2017 5:15am
Andy_Greenney wrote:
Their road to domination started in 2001, had a 2002 125sx and that bike absolutely run circles around the cr125 and yz125 I had at the...
Their road to domination started in 2001, had a 2002 125sx and that bike absolutely run circles around the cr125 and yz125 I had at the time
I had a 01 and 02 125sx. It would run circles around the other bikes....until you hit some bumps Laughing

After being on those bikes for a few years I rode a buddy's 02 YZ125. Instantly sold that Ktm and went back to Yamaha. Handled so much better.
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BobPA 6/18/2017 5:44am
6/18/2017 5:44am
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
Probably winning Erzburg as we speak
newmann
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newmann 6/18/2017 6:15am
6/18/2017 6:15am
markit wrote:
Oddly didn't seam to affect the Europeans, many titles on PDS across the pond. To many crybabies in moto during that time.
731chopper wrote:
Yeah McGrath was such a crybaby...
He did his fair share.

I for one appreciated his disgust for the aluminum frame.
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newmann 6/18/2017 6:22am
6/18/2017 6:22am
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
BobPA wrote:
Probably winning Erzburg as we speak
Hell yeah!Smile Conventional forks and linkless suspension for the win. If the mfgs were to refine both, people would rocks at inverts and linkage.
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mx317 6/18/2017 6:27am
6/18/2017 6:27am
es337 wrote:
Mx1 ktm to finish 1 and 2 in points Mx2 ktm red plate 450 ktm loses red plate only for it to go to another ktm...
Mx1 ktm to finish 1 and 2 in points
Mx2 ktm red plate
450 ktm loses red plate only for it to go to another ktm
250 ((ktm)) red plate

kiwifan wrote:
I am not sure how you can correlate Factory bikes to Production bikes, I guess if you are a one eyed KTM fan than perhaps it...
I am not sure how you can correlate Factory bikes to Production bikes, I guess if you are a one eyed KTM fan than perhaps it is easy.

However....In the US the 450 plate has now gone to Suzuki from KTM, Husky still holds the 250 red plate but JMart is closing the gap

So yeah not all doom and gloom you make it out to be Smile
Red plate to Suzuki? Baggett is on a KTM.
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dcg141 6/18/2017 6:45am
6/18/2017 6:45am
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
Still selling....a lot actually
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dcg141 6/18/2017 6:51am
6/18/2017 6:51am
KTM is building another floor into thier R&D dept and hiring nearly double their current engineers. They are about to triple the size of their facility in the US. Facilities worldwide are being added onto or new ones are being built.
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mx317 6/18/2017 6:57am
6/18/2017 6:57am
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
dcg141 wrote:
Still selling....a lot actually
I'm not riding pro SX, but one of the best working rear shocks I've had was a FC setup PDS Shock with a progressive spring. For SX whoops it may not have been the best, but for what 99% of what people ride they would work. The only complaint I had with it was having to adjust from track to track while I can just leave the shock alone on my new KTM and ride.

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newmann
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newmann 6/18/2017 6:57am
6/18/2017 6:57am
dcg141 wrote:
KTM is building another floor into thier R&D dept and hiring nearly double their current engineers. They are about to triple the size of their facility...
KTM is building another floor into thier R&D dept and hiring nearly double their current engineers. They are about to triple the size of their facility in the US. Facilities worldwide are being added onto or new ones are being built.
Trump's fault? Or still Bush's fault? Where's Rock to blame Reagan?Smile
Deal Brothers Trailers 6/18/2017 8:15am
6/18/2017 8:15am
dcg141 wrote:
KTM is building another floor into thier R&D dept and hiring nearly double their current engineers. They are about to triple the size of their facility...
KTM is building another floor into thier R&D dept and hiring nearly double their current engineers. They are about to triple the size of their facility in the US. Facilities worldwide are being added onto or new ones are being built.
Nice...I'm wondering if they are in discussions to purchase ALTA or......
Any current news on where they are with their all electric program?
Might be a few years but I'm sure I will eventually end up on one.
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MXMattii 6/18/2017 8:24am
6/18/2017 8:24am
MXMattii wrote:
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe...
I still remember some Yanks and Red Necks saying: "It won't happen in the US, KTM can do it in that second tier championship in Europe but that pile of sh*t will never dominate the US!".
LumpDog841 wrote:
Roger Decoster admitted to saying/thinking the same thing in a recent interview. So is he a Red Neck?
There wasn't enough effort going into it from KTM Austria back then. Supercross is a crazy animal and when you let KTM US deal with it on their own it won't work out. So you can say that KTM didn't prove anything till they started to try.

Also teams like McGrath' team was pretty much a own setup wasn't it? So to dial-in a brand new KTM, who's never been competitive and has no linkage (because back then it didn't had that) in supercross... I
overthebars39 6/18/2017 9:16am
6/18/2017 9:16am Edited Date/Time 6/18/2017 9:17am
newmann wrote:
World domination. Love it. Meanwhile, back in Japan... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/17/200659/s1200_download.jpg[/img]
World domination. Love it.

Meanwhile, back in Japan...



To busy building jets
overthebars39 6/18/2017 9:33am
6/18/2017 9:33am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning. KRoc won last year on a bike that's...
You're missing his point. It's not the bike that's winning, it's the talent twisting the throttle that's winning.
KRoc won last year on a bike that's considered old. You could've put him on any bike last year and the result would be the same.

And the same applies now- put these winning riders on any bike and they'll still be winning.

It's not the bike that's winning.
Indeed, but it's not only the rider. It's the whole team.
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VxeR 6/18/2017 11:16am
6/18/2017 11:16am
KTM will never be dethroned. Aside from MX, literally 97% of the Enduro/Offroad crowd rides KTM or Husky
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kiwifan 6/18/2017 1:09pm
6/18/2017 1:09pm
es337 wrote:
Mx1 ktm to finish 1 and 2 in points Mx2 ktm red plate 450 ktm loses red plate only for it to go to another ktm...
Mx1 ktm to finish 1 and 2 in points
Mx2 ktm red plate
450 ktm loses red plate only for it to go to another ktm
250 ((ktm)) red plate

kiwifan wrote:
I am not sure how you can correlate Factory bikes to Production bikes, I guess if you are a one eyed KTM fan than perhaps it...
I am not sure how you can correlate Factory bikes to Production bikes, I guess if you are a one eyed KTM fan than perhaps it is easy.

However....In the US the 450 plate has now gone to Suzuki from KTM, Husky still holds the 250 red plate but JMart is closing the gap

So yeah not all doom and gloom you make it out to be Smile
mx317 wrote:
Red plate to Suzuki? Baggett is on a KTM.
lol fuck I got that wrong !! lol my bad....
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yzmatt 6/18/2017 1:25pm
6/18/2017 1:25pm
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
dcg141 wrote:
Still selling....a lot actually
Thank you, can't believe it took so many posts for someone to point that out.
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milliebays 6/18/2017 8:07pm
6/18/2017 8:07pm
milliebays wrote:
How did that PDS work out for them?
dcg141 wrote:
Still selling....a lot actually
yzmatt wrote:
Thank you, can't believe it took so many posts for someone to point that out.
Meh. Halo effect. They tried to do things the quirky porschesque way and it didnt work for SX
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Fearo 6/19/2017 6:03am
6/19/2017 6:03am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2017 6:05am
There's a bunch of different reasons, but here's some of the larger ones:

-Current platform is SO much better than the Japanese bikes as a starting point to build a pro bike. Even the factories have to start somewhere, and I'd rather start 5 HP ahead, 10 lbs down with E-start, wouldn't you? Honda's 2017 450 shows the Japanese painful lack of commitment to motocross from an R&D standpoint. There's no doubt Honda could build a stock bike that can compete with KTM, they just aren't willing to invest in the people and R&D to make that happen.

--KTM owns more pieces of the pro-racers pie than any other brand. How many satellite teams do the Japanese brands have? The current points leader is on a satellite team for christs sake. It's not smart to bet all your money on one superstar like Honda/Roczen if you can't afford a sure thing podium contender to back him up. KTM has a 'good' guy for every 'great' guy they have in every class worldwide.
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280driver 6/19/2017 7:05am
6/19/2017 7:05am
It's really hard to aurgue with KTMs success. I do think Yamaha has tried. Their bikes certainly are "outside the box" relative to other Japanese brands. Hasn't helped much though. Kawasaki has what is supposedly a revolutionary design for the '19 KX450F so maybe that will be the first real attempt to step up to beat KTM. I must say that I'm surprised how poorly the new Honda has done.
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aharper33 6/19/2017 7:13am
6/19/2017 7:13am
I dont know the answer to this but how much does Red Bull invest in KTM? I wonder how much if any it helps them. I would think that having a company like Red Bull as a major sponsor for the whole team pretty much worldwide has got to help.

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