Here is the 2021 450 Shoutout?? Deleted??

mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 10/17/2020 9:14am
10/17/2020 9:14am
LKHill wrote:
I guess I am still confused. All the testers raved about the KTM being the best for them in the old video.
I guess I am still confused. All the testers raved about the KTM being the best for them in the old video.
Dirty Points wrote:
That's why the math was so confusing. Best is #2 in this format. Worst is #3, 2nd is #1, and so on...
yz133rider wrote:
Oh and the bike literally everyone hopped on last year from every mag and raved how it took minimal changes to get comfortable on is number...
Oh and the bike literally everyone hopped on last year from every mag and raved how it took minimal changes to get comfortable on is number 4 and all of a sudden people are struggling with set up.
I’m not sure what other tracks they went to, but I know they did go to State Fair Mx which is not where the Yamaha will shine at all.
slowgti
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slowgti 10/17/2020 9:53am
10/17/2020 9:53am
The shootouts don't make much sense anymore, it's not the 70's or 80's anymore. All the bikes are good, just in different areas.

Just because 5 or 6 people like it on the other side of the country from me, doesn't mean it's the right one for me.
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Brent
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Brent 10/17/2020 10:00am
10/17/2020 10:00am
Brent wrote:
I sure wish that more manufacturers would do the demo days like KTM and Yamaha used to do. Then bike buyers can decide for themselves instead...
I sure wish that more manufacturers would do the demo days like KTM and Yamaha used to do.

Then bike buyers can decide for themselves instead of relying on input from others. These bikes are so close in performance and handling that it comes down to personal preference and riding style.

The last time I did the Yamaha Jason Raines Demo was back in March just before the Rona hit, it was nice to ride the YZ 450, and even though it wasn't the bike for my riding style, at least I got to try it as opposed to just buying a random bike I have never ridden and hope it fits because some tester that I don't know said it was good.

Maybe riders buy the same brand year after year simply because they have never wanted to take the risk of buying a motorcycle that doesn't feel good to them, its not like you can return the thing if you don't like it...
mxb2 wrote:
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike...
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike you wont like.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
I wouldn’t let anyone I don’t know ride my bike. If they want to pay me they can pay the KBB and keep it
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening:

“ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam, but here’s 20 bucks, can I take your new bike out on the track?”
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LKHill
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LKHill 10/17/2020 10:07am
10/17/2020 10:07am
numbers wrote:
David did say during the shootout no one bike is gonna make the average guy any faster. Some bikes with suit others better.
There can be 5 seconds a lap or more between bikes with the same rider when all is said and done. It is tough to know the right one to choose without some kind of feedback. I wouldn't let a stranger ride my bike for money but I know the risk/reward of letting others do so and accept it.
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MxKing809
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MxKing809 10/17/2020 10:08am
10/17/2020 10:08am
mxb2 wrote:
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike...
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike you wont like.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
I wouldn’t let anyone I don’t know ride my bike. If they want to pay me they can pay the KBB and keep it
Brent wrote:
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening: “ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam...
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening:

“ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam, but here’s 20 bucks, can I take your new bike out on the track?”
I’ve done it.

Ratted out S10 with a roached ‘04 CRF250?

No fucking way.


New Silverado and a 2018 YZ450 - wanting to try my vet weapon 150SX?

Let’s talk
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mxb2
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mxb2 10/17/2020 4:54pm
10/17/2020 4:54pm
mxb2 wrote:
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike...
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike you wont like.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
I wouldn’t let anyone I don’t know ride my bike. If they want to pay me they can pay the KBB and keep it
Brent wrote:
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening: “ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam...
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening:

“ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam, but here’s 20 bucks, can I take your new bike out on the track?”
$100 for 3 laps
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numbers
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numbers 10/17/2020 4:56pm
10/17/2020 4:56pm
mxb2 wrote:
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike...
Hit a local track, find all the brands you want, give the owner some $$ to spin a few laps. Cheaper than buying a new bike you wont like.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
I wouldn’t let anyone I don’t know ride my bike. If they want to pay me they can pay the KBB and keep it
Brent wrote:
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening: “ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam...
That’s what I was thinking. Imagine this happening:

“ Hey Bud, I notice you have a brand new 2021 450. You don’t know me from Adam, but here’s 20 bucks, can I take your new bike out on the track?”
Why doesn't Beta and Sherco get their bikes tested.
mxb2
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mxb2 10/17/2020 4:56pm
10/17/2020 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 10/17/2020 7:20pm
Believe it or not it happens, after the dude shows you how he rides his own bike. $100 for 6 minutes, pretty good $$.
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dpingree101
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dpingree101 10/18/2020 9:46am
10/18/2020 9:46am
tek14 wrote:
They took it down because too much dead horse(Honda) kicking.
GuyB wrote:
Honda's results had nothing to do with it being pulled down. I think you guys have an outsized view of Honda's (or any manufacturer's) ability to...
Honda's results had nothing to do with it being pulled down. I think you guys have an outsized view of Honda's (or any manufacturer's) ability to try and influence results.

Here's the long and short of it...

There was an error made in the tabulation of the results that affected the outcome, and more importantly, the overall winner. What can we say? We goofed up some simple math.

We're in the process of redoing the end of the video, and it'll be up in a day or so. We're also working to have the complete 450 Shootout article up on the site soon, which will have more detailed comments on each of the bikes.

The corrected results look like this.

1. Kawasaki
2. KTM
3. Honda
4. Yamaha
5. Husqvarna

Of course, this is a bummer, and we'll admit...pretty embarrassing. We'd like to pass along our apologies to the brands involved. We're implementing controls to ensure nothing like this happens again.

The easy thing would have been to leave it as it was. But that wasn't the right thing to do, and not what you guys deserve.
Well, it wasn’t a calculation error... we had riders verbally tell us their rankings prior to shooting the video. Then, for the coming text piece, we had them email us their notes and overall scores. The numbers changed from what we were told in person to what they sent in. It did change the winning bike. Unfortunate, but nothing nefarious.
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Brent
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Brent 10/18/2020 10:09am
10/18/2020 10:09am Edited Date/Time 10/18/2020 10:10am
dpingree101 wrote:
Well, it wasn’t a calculation error... we had riders verbally tell us their rankings prior to shooting the video. Then, for the coming text piece, we...
Well, it wasn’t a calculation error... we had riders verbally tell us their rankings prior to shooting the video. Then, for the coming text piece, we had them email us their notes and overall scores. The numbers changed from what we were told in person to what they sent in. It did change the winning bike. Unfortunate, but nothing nefarious.
David when are we going to be able to read the updated test?
I’m very curious to see the testers opinion on why a KTM platform that is so similar to the Husqvarna finished so far apart.

I own the 21 KTM but I’ve never ridden the Husky, are they really that different? are these small differences, or are they like night and day?
MxKing809
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MxKing809 10/18/2020 10:25am
10/18/2020 10:25am Edited Date/Time 10/18/2020 10:28am
dpingree101 wrote:
Well, it wasn’t a calculation error... we had riders verbally tell us their rankings prior to shooting the video. Then, for the coming text piece, we...
Well, it wasn’t a calculation error... we had riders verbally tell us their rankings prior to shooting the video. Then, for the coming text piece, we had them email us their notes and overall scores. The numbers changed from what we were told in person to what they sent in. It did change the winning bike. Unfortunate, but nothing nefarious.
Brent wrote:
David when are we going to be able to read the updated test? I’m very curious to see the testers opinion on why a KTM platform...
David when are we going to be able to read the updated test?
I’m very curious to see the testers opinion on why a KTM platform that is so similar to the Husqvarna finished so far apart.

I own the 21 KTM but I’ve never ridden the Husky, are they really that different? are these small differences, or are they like night and day?
I believe this year they shifted the Husky to be more vet oriented. Less suspension travel, more squatted chassis, softer settings, less engine hit, etc.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/18/2020 10:39am
10/18/2020 10:39am
Brent wrote:
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel...
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel for these bikes.

I mean, can you really decide to marry someone after one date?

To spend 11 or 12 grand based on the opinion of someone who only rode a stock bike for maybe 2 hours at one SoCal track seems sketchy to me.
As a person that tests stuff for a living.... quite the contrary.... i know what I need to know, in the first few minutes.... for me,, the most important aspect to testing is have a competitor on hand so u can go directly back to back... durability takes time to test... but it just takes me a couple minutes to know how a certain product stacks overall, up against previous competition
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MxKing809
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MxKing809 10/18/2020 10:44am
10/18/2020 10:44am
Brent wrote:
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel...
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel for these bikes.

I mean, can you really decide to marry someone after one date?

To spend 11 or 12 grand based on the opinion of someone who only rode a stock bike for maybe 2 hours at one SoCal track seems sketchy to me.
gt80rider wrote:
As a person that tests stuff for a living.... quite the contrary.... i know what I need to know, in the first few minutes.... for me...
As a person that tests stuff for a living.... quite the contrary.... i know what I need to know, in the first few minutes.... for me,, the most important aspect to testing is have a competitor on hand so u can go directly back to back... durability takes time to test... but it just takes me a couple minutes to know how a certain product stacks overall, up against previous competition
Yup, if you don’t know in the first 2 laps it’s not a big enough different to notice/care about
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RPM68
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RPM68 10/18/2020 1:42pm
10/18/2020 1:42pm
I appreciate the hell outta the works these guys put in for shootouts, but I’ve had “terrible” bikes over the past 10-15 years I always manage to just setup pretty good for me.

Some are of course better than others, but the input the shootouts offer from such a wide variety of people is great to hear, and I believe a great tool for these manufacturers and dealers to use.
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cloud41
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cloud41 10/19/2020 5:27am
10/19/2020 5:27am
Anyone else think they should do shootouts in the Midwest, south, or east coast?
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ehr400
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ehr400 10/19/2020 6:41am
10/19/2020 6:41am
cloud41 wrote:
Anyone else think they should do shootouts in the Midwest, south, or east coast?
I know Keefer wanted to do one in the midwest somewhere but couldnt get the manufacturers to support it. Honestly what they test in Cali has zero correlation to the sand we ride in Michigan. I also think the tests are interesting to read but not everyone is going to like a certain model because their size/ skill/ terrain etc. I think there are bikes every year near the bottom or at bottom people would probably really enjoy to ride.
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Brent
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Brent 12/20/2020 6:46pm
12/20/2020 6:46pm
RCMXracing wrote:
Is the updated written 450 test posted on the site somewhere? Did a search and lead me to this thread. Looking for some baseline settings. Edit...
Is the updated written 450 test posted on the site somewhere?

Did a search and lead me to this thread. Looking for some baseline settings.

Edit: found it
https://m.vitalmx.com/features/Vital-MX-450-Shootout-Full-Test,7152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLa3CQzgBg
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T-MAC
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T-MAC 12/20/2020 7:26pm
12/20/2020 7:26pm
Brent wrote:
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel...
I always thought one day "shootouts" are just rushed out to get views. Common sense would say you need a few days to get a feel for these bikes.

I mean, can you really decide to marry someone after one date?

To spend 11 or 12 grand based on the opinion of someone who only rode a stock bike for maybe 2 hours at one SoCal track seems sketchy to me.
We buy bikes without being able to test ride them the majority of the time, unless someone is willing to let you ride their own. So we do kind of marry our bikes before the first date typically...We read their bio and see what others that have taken them for a ride say...Not recommending the same approach for a wife.

I was very fortunate to ride in Vitals 250 shootout last year and can confirm a few hours on each bike is definitely ample time to suss out the differences and nuances between them. It isn't a long term durability test, it's to see how a varied group of riders gets along with all of them on the same track, same day. I was pretty amazed at just how different each bike felt. Even moreso between tracks like Milestone and Glen Helen.

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burn1986
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burn1986 12/20/2020 11:35pm
12/20/2020 11:35pm
Pretty good shootout. It’s funny how MXA raved about the Husky compared to the Honda.
LKHill
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LKHill 12/21/2020 5:39am
12/21/2020 5:39am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2020 5:45am
burn1986 wrote:
Pretty good shootout. It’s funny how MXA raved about the Husky compared to the Honda.
Funny? How so? Pretty much everybody in the USA (except for Vital who softball'ed it and finished last years winner behind it) scored the bike in 5th place.
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nickm
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nickm 12/21/2020 7:54pm
12/21/2020 7:54pm
I wish someone would take a different format on these comparison tests 1st through last hasn't made sense in a long time. I'd rather they talk about the characteristics of power, suspension, handling dynamics, ergonomics, build quality and value for money. It would also be nice if they dropped the irrelevant stuff (I don't care about the $40 grips, or the tires I'm going to swap out anyways). It'd be nice if they focused on the impact of the built in adjustability (what does the power valve spring do? how about the adjustment? Do the adjustable footpads make the bike fit for tall guys?

I get that reviews need to keep the manufacturers happy, but focus on reviewing the specific machine should go a long way to informing readers and not upsetting the powers that be. Vital has been one of the better shootouts lately, but be nice to evolve the whole shootout concept from the 70s and make it more relevant to todays buyer.


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