How does Barcia not get docked..huge track cut

philG
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philG
Edited Date/Time 9/29/2020 9:57pm
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone got robbed there for sure.
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str8line
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str8line 9/26/2020 4:57pm
9/26/2020 4:57pm
philG wrote:
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone...
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone got robbed there for sure.

He got his... in the form of a lapping from Zacho.
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Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 9/26/2020 7:02pm
9/26/2020 7:02pm
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
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Leeham
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Leeham 9/26/2020 8:02pm
9/26/2020 8:02pm
Hardly lol dude went from 2nd to be being behind Bogle who was dead last. If he went to the pits, got it sorted and was top 20 pulling out, maybe penalize him a spot, but not last dude 😂 He put in a solid ride to get 16th with the left shroud missing.
I just cringe everytime a yamaha falls in sand like that. All that stuff going straight into the filter lol
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2thefront
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2thefront 9/26/2020 8:38pm
9/26/2020 8:38pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an advantage by cutting the track. Just because it took him out of contention for the win doesn't mean it had no impact on someone's race.
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 9/26/2020 8:51pm
9/26/2020 8:51pm
Don't the AMA rules on track cutting specifically say there has to be an advantage?

He was off the bike once in the pits, and got lapped.

I don't think it's outright against rules unless it meets stated criteria. Just my $0.02
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 9/26/2020 8:58pm
9/26/2020 8:58pm
2thefront wrote:
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an...
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an advantage by cutting the track. Just because it took him out of contention for the win doesn't mean it had no impact on someone's race.
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he was in last place. That's not an "off track advantage".
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2thefront
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2thefront 9/26/2020 9:27pm
9/26/2020 9:27pm
2thefront wrote:
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an...
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an advantage by cutting the track. Just because it took him out of contention for the win doesn't mean it had no impact on someone's race.
aeffertz wrote:
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he...
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he was in last place. That's not an "off track advantage".
So the time factor is irrelevant? Racing is all about time. He had a total time from start to finish that was reduced by not doing parts of the track. He literally gained an extra championship point because of it. That could be the difference in another rider getting a huge bonus or not.
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str8line
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str8line 9/26/2020 9:34pm
9/26/2020 9:34pm
Some serious flaws in logic in this thread. He got 16th. He should have gotten 20th. He gained an advantage by riding around the track.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 9/26/2020 9:37pm
9/26/2020 9:37pm
str8line wrote:
Some serious flaws in logic in this thread. He got 16th. He should have gotten 20th. He gained an advantage by riding around the track.
That’s not how the rule is written though. Otherwise any time a rider left the markers he could be docked.
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jorgechavez 9/26/2020 9:50pm
9/26/2020 9:50pm
I agree with OP, and while I can’t think of a specific time I’m almost certain people have been penalized for doing exactly what Barcia did. Could be wrong, though.
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USA
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USA 9/26/2020 11:30pm
9/26/2020 11:30pm
jorgechavez wrote:
I agree with OP, and while I can’t think of a specific time I’m almost certain people have been penalized for doing exactly what Barcia did...
I agree with OP, and while I can’t think of a specific time I’m almost certain people have been penalized for doing exactly what Barcia did. Could be wrong, though.
I think this happened to McAdoo or Forkner last year maybe? I remember an incident in the 250 class where a rider got docked for cutting parts of the track on the way to the mechanics
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shortcourse
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shortcourse 9/27/2020 12:02am
9/27/2020 12:02am

He restarted the race in last...his best lap time was faster than 3 riders that finished in front of him and better than every rider that finished behind him. If it was AC, Tomac or any other of the top riders that this happened to you'll would be praising it as a great ride from last place to 13th. JB51 is not a big favorite of mine, but he rides with heart and sprit.
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ProbablyDave 9/27/2020 12:07am
9/27/2020 12:07am
He might have lost a bunch of positions, but don't the riders need to re-enter the track at the first save place to do so?
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philG
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philG 9/27/2020 12:43am
9/27/2020 12:43am
Just because he was last , doesnt make it OK.. he was last by far less a margin than he should have been. So the 30 secs+ of track he cut meant he took that time advantage.. the fact that he was last is irrelevant.. he took a 30 second shortcut and denied someone else points. . I checked the results and he was shown as 13th on the AMA site.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 9/27/2020 1:09am
9/27/2020 1:09am Edited Date/Time 9/27/2020 1:38am
philG wrote:
Just because he was last , doesnt make it OK.. he was last by far less a margin than he should have been. So the 30...
Just because he was last , doesnt make it OK.. he was last by far less a margin than he should have been. So the 30 secs+ of track he cut meant he took that time advantage.. the fact that he was last is irrelevant.. he took a 30 second shortcut and denied someone else points. . I checked the results and he was shown as 13th on the AMA site.
This topic a lost cause. There is a certain amount of people that have a completely screwed up take on what "losing time" means in situations like this. Just go back to the Savatgy lane cut in his PC Kawi days, people argued that he didn't gain anything by cutting a whole lane off because he crashed and lost time there. Huh

Barcia got very lucky in this case. Still a very good ride from him.
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Freddy
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Freddy 9/27/2020 1:46am
9/27/2020 1:46am
Lets see what happends if any f1 driver skips part of the track do make a pit stop. As long as he is still losing positions its ok to do so right?
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SX-Andy
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SX-Andy 9/27/2020 2:45am
9/27/2020 2:45am
Going by the positions lost logic, it would be ok to cut half the track after a first corner crash as long as you join at the back of the pack.
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philG
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philG 9/27/2020 2:49am
9/27/2020 2:49am
SX-Andy wrote:
Going by the positions lost logic, it would be ok to cut half the track after a first corner crash as long as you join at...
Going by the positions lost logic, it would be ok to cut half the track after a first corner crash as long as you join at the back of the pack.
Exactly ' well i am still last so its all good' .

No, no it isnt.
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Mega Racing 9/27/2020 3:15am
9/27/2020 3:15am
That seems like a strange rule that you can cut the track from anywhere to get back to the pits. In Europe there is a pit entry & if you crash 2 corners past it you need to complete the lap before pulling in. You cant ride off the track & go direct to the pits. But if thats what some of are saying the rules say then fair enough.
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Huckster
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Huckster 9/27/2020 3:57am
9/27/2020 3:57am
philG wrote:
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone...
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone got robbed there for sure.
If it were anyone but Barcia who finished 13th in a Moto and 10th O/A would you have started this topic? You really need to let go of the hate.
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jemcee
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jemcee 9/27/2020 4:04am
9/27/2020 4:04am
Would he have been further back if he followed the track?
Of course! So he gained an advantage
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jemcee
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jemcee 9/27/2020 4:08am
9/27/2020 4:08am
jorgechavez wrote:
I agree with OP, and while I can’t think of a specific time I’m almost certain people have been penalized for doing exactly what Barcia did...
I agree with OP, and while I can’t think of a specific time I’m almost certain people have been penalized for doing exactly what Barcia did. Could be wrong, though.
USA wrote:
I think this happened to McAdoo or Forkner last year maybe? I remember an incident in the 250 class where a rider got docked for cutting...
I think this happened to McAdoo or Forkner last year maybe? I remember an incident in the 250 class where a rider got docked for cutting parts of the track on the way to the mechanics
I remember this too but I think it was earlier than last year.. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago, I do remember it was at Hangtown though
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GeorgiePorgie 9/27/2020 6:08am
9/27/2020 6:08am
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
I still don’t like this rule. It’s so open to interpretation. Needs to be cut and dry. Leave track, re enter where you exited.
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philG
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philG 9/27/2020 8:52am
9/27/2020 8:52am
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
I still don’t like this rule. It’s so open to interpretation. Needs to be cut and dry. Leave track, re enter where you exited.
So as long as they took longer than the time he cut , that is all ok ... fuck me that is just plain dumb.. if he tore his bike up he should ride it back in , and then let the mechanics fix it.. thats how it works, not just ride straight to pit lane 'to save time' .. thats where the 'advantage' comes from. Its not advantage relative to everyone else, its advantage relative to how long it would have took, if he did it properly.
He crashed at 28.30 and remounted ,at 28.20 and took off for the pits. So that is 10 secs.

He is already dismounted in the pits at 27.50 So that is another 30 secs.

He leaves the pits at 27.00 Another 50 secs.

When he crosses the line, he shows as being 1.10 down on the leader. 70 secs.

But he took he should have been 90 secs down based on the time he lost. So somewhere along the line there at 20 seconds unaccounted for .

Who it is is irrelevant, its just utter bollocks that a pro rider thinks he can just ride in from wherever he is and think its OK.. and even bigger bollocks that he doesnt get pulled for it .




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str8line
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str8line 9/27/2020 9:17am
9/27/2020 9:17am
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
I still don’t like this rule. It’s so open to interpretation. Needs to be cut and dry. Leave track, re enter where you exited.
philG wrote:
So as long as they took longer than the time he cut , that is all ok ... fuck me that is just plain dumb.. if...
So as long as they took longer than the time he cut , that is all ok ... fuck me that is just plain dumb.. if he tore his bike up he should ride it back in , and then let the mechanics fix it.. thats how it works, not just ride straight to pit lane 'to save time' .. thats where the 'advantage' comes from. Its not advantage relative to everyone else, its advantage relative to how long it would have took, if he did it properly.
He crashed at 28.30 and remounted ,at 28.20 and took off for the pits. So that is 10 secs.

He is already dismounted in the pits at 27.50 So that is another 30 secs.

He leaves the pits at 27.00 Another 50 secs.

When he crosses the line, he shows as being 1.10 down on the leader. 70 secs.

But he took he should have been 90 secs down based on the time he lost. So somewhere along the line there at 20 seconds unaccounted for .

Who it is is irrelevant, its just utter bollocks that a pro rider thinks he can just ride in from wherever he is and think its OK.. and even bigger bollocks that he doesnt get pulled for it .




It's cut and dry. And Marv hitting AC from behind is cut and dry. So how does one interpret the majority of posters supporting Marv and Justin?
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mx 219
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mx 219 9/27/2020 10:23am
9/27/2020 10:23am
To me its black and white. If you crash then you ride (on) the track until you get to the mechanics area then go back out on the track.

What Barcia did was so screwed up. I cant believe anyone would think what he did was okay.
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731chopper
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731chopper 9/27/2020 10:36am
9/27/2020 10:36am
I’d say he gained an advantage by getting to the mechanics area more quickly but this seems to be a rule the AMA interprets very loosely.
Suicidal_Tendencies 9/27/2020 10:39am
9/27/2020 10:39am
philG wrote:
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone...
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone got robbed there for sure.
I've never heard you mention one good thing about Barcia. If you think he should be fined, and/or docked some positions, fine. But you're making a bigger deal out of this than you should in my opinion. The damn riders can't do anything these days without someone being upset or bothered by it. It's moto, just enjoy it.
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