Is MX regressing?

jonesaustin
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7/2/2017 11:56am
Alucard wrote:
Absolutely agree and on point... Professionalism is peaking, talent alone doesn't cut it anymore, today the competition is so tight that if you miss a little...
Absolutely agree and on point... Professionalism is peaking, talent alone doesn't cut it anymore, today the competition is so tight that if you miss a little step you're doomed... We're probably not going to see rookies dominating anymore, riders are extending their primes and peaks, and everyone is a pro, from bike, training, diet, psychologist, overall team and such...

Competition only gets better, not the contrary, in every sport... Plus let's be fair, RC is arguably the GOAT, and JS one of the most incredible and innovative riders ever, having both as a meter of comparison is tough for anyone...
Wow well said.
Nighttrain
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7/2/2017 12:59pm
I'd say it's more level but also more saturated than ever. RC dominated because he turned EVERYONE's lifestyles from "Hey let's party it up!" to "How...
I'd say it's more level but also more saturated than ever. RC dominated because he turned EVERYONE's lifestyles from "Hey let's party it up!" to "How many miles did I put on the road bike this week?" JS7 changed the way we all ride now. With the combination of that and the ease of riding / racing 4 strokes these days (as well as some being smarter and safer on how they approach the races - risk / reward), it's leveled off for now. Crap economy in 2008 may have played a part and lifestyles change over time. Less racers at local level these days. Social media's influence (everyone sees everything now) and the cost cutting world we live in now (ditching cable, apps, Uber, etc.) are other factors. Times a changin'.
"Less riders at the local races" will be the root cause sooner, not later, for a regression in the talent level. That's not to say techniques and training methods won't progress, though. But a smaller talent pool simply equals less talent.
philG
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7/2/2017 3:10pm
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
Did you read what you wrote??

250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but he is now the big dog in 250 along with a bunch of guys doing their damndest to not point out of SX , to the point where they all bleated till the rules got changed. Charbonneu ran top 10 in AMA and he cant get out of EMX qualification half the time , let alone get in a GP.

Im sure Reed could battle Henry Miller for 30+2 , the 450 class is fast becoming irrelevant , with the number of SX only and Canadian dropouts.

MXGP is stacked, properly, 30 riders worthy of a place, when they are all fit.



The Shop

Sodipop
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7/2/2017 3:50pm
I think the depth now here and especially the GP's is higher than ever. That said prime RC or JS would have raped the field yesterday
philG wrote:
Depth in the US is at an all time low, IMO, Villopoto quit in his prime, Dungey did the same, Roczen is in his prime sitting...
Depth in the US is at an all time low, IMO, Villopoto quit in his prime, Dungey did the same, Roczen is in his prime sitting on the sidelines, and then a rake of riders are on SX only contracts or up in Canada making money..

250 class is full of guys that would be out of a ride if they ran the MXGP rules of under 23, which is why the 450 class is a shadow of its former self, no Alessi, no Reed , no Brayton, no Millsaps, Mookie sitting home bleating nobody will pay him to ride.

Every national series in the world is a shadow of what it was back in 2010, or 2000, or 1990.. if you dont know enough to know that then you are either 22 , or simply werent paying attention


250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
It's competitive but is there even anyone there who will be a factor in the 450 class?
Sodipop
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7/2/2017 3:53pm
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
philG wrote:
Did you read what you wrote?? 250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but...
Did you read what you wrote??

250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but he is now the big dog in 250 along with a bunch of guys doing their damndest to not point out of SX , to the point where they all bleated till the rules got changed. Charbonneu ran top 10 in AMA and he cant get out of EMX qualification half the time , let alone get in a GP.

Im sure Reed could battle Henry Miller for 30+2 , the 450 class is fast becoming irrelevant , with the number of SX only and Canadian dropouts.

MXGP is stacked, properly, 30 riders worthy of a place, when they are all fit.



I agree that the field isn't great right now. I think Baggett, tomac, musquin and Anderson could compete for wins in any field but without Dungey and roczen and with what happened to Stewart, I just don't know. And then after that you're missing a lot of talented guys.
cbuehler767
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7/2/2017 3:55pm
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
philG wrote:
Did you read what you wrote?? 250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but...
Did you read what you wrote??

250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but he is now the big dog in 250 along with a bunch of guys doing their damndest to not point out of SX , to the point where they all bleated till the rules got changed. Charbonneu ran top 10 in AMA and he cant get out of EMX qualification half the time , let alone get in a GP.

Im sure Reed could battle Henry Miller for 30+2 , the 450 class is fast becoming irrelevant , with the number of SX only and Canadian dropouts.

MXGP is stacked, properly, 30 riders worthy of a place, when they are all fit.



MXGP is loaded, no doubt. Why should anyone be on a 450? Pro is pro. If a guy can make a career out of riding a 250 why should he be forced to move up? Thomas Covington is a threat to win races in Europe, I doubt he would sniff the podium over here but for a race or two. Just my opinions friend, so over the AMA vs GP shit. I think the World Championships are the premier series by the way, save for Tomac being arguably the top rider in the world
avidchimp
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7/2/2017 3:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2017 3:57pm
zehn wrote:
[img]https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/061/664/1275937249093s.jpg[/img]
Ain't nobody got time for dat.
Indymxer
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7/2/2017 6:25pm
Go back and watch Throttle for the Gold and look at those sx tracks. Nothing like today. But maybe it's just more skill nowadays what do I know.
wfo4ever
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7/2/2017 7:05pm
BobbyM wrote:
Sir Clueless we'll call you. MX participation peaked long before that Sir Clueless .late 70s early 80's
What "BobbyM" said is the facts. I have been riding motorcycles since 1970. I worked in the motorcycle industry and owned my own shop for 30+ years. I am now retired since 2012. I am so thankful I am retired from the industry, many people I know in the industry are loosing their jobs after many years of working for the same company. The industry is not doing well because of the decline over the years. Back in the 70's and early 80's there were motorcycles everywhere and the sport and the industry were growing at a rapid rate, not anymore. Motorcycle riding or racing of any kind has been on the decline, and it will only get worse. Us "Old Farts" are getting old and at some point for whatever reason we will quit riding. The "problem" is the lack of new riders, most people could care less about riding a motorcycle these days. Motorcycle sales are way down from the 70's. Motorcycle dealers, race tracks, and riding areas are closing all over the country. Everybody has Smart Phones now. The End.....
Yep
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7/2/2017 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2017 7:31pm
The progression thru the ranks in the World Championship should be a wake up call and a model the AMA should pay attention to. Riders are groomed and slowly adapted to the elite series beginning in the EMX125 class. The riders ride on the full on GP tracks and are supported by major teams. A season or two in the 125s then 2 or 3 years in the EMX250 and they have basically approximately 5 GP years under their belts before they even attempt to gate in the MX2 class. The upcoming talent pool is massive and growing every season in Europe,
OUMX117
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7/3/2017 8:35am
wfo4ever wrote:
What "BobbyM" said is the facts. I have been riding motorcycles since 1970. I worked in the motorcycle industry and owned my own shop for 30+...
What "BobbyM" said is the facts. I have been riding motorcycles since 1970. I worked in the motorcycle industry and owned my own shop for 30+ years. I am now retired since 2012. I am so thankful I am retired from the industry, many people I know in the industry are loosing their jobs after many years of working for the same company. The industry is not doing well because of the decline over the years. Back in the 70's and early 80's there were motorcycles everywhere and the sport and the industry were growing at a rapid rate, not anymore. Motorcycle riding or racing of any kind has been on the decline, and it will only get worse. Us "Old Farts" are getting old and at some point for whatever reason we will quit riding. The "problem" is the lack of new riders, most people could care less about riding a motorcycle these days. Motorcycle sales are way down from the 70's. Motorcycle dealers, race tracks, and riding areas are closing all over the country. Everybody has Smart Phones now. The End.....
As sad as this is, it's 100% true. No one cares whats happening in the actual world around them anymore. People would rather be "talented" online than "talented" in the real world. Just go to dinner at a restaurant and look around at the people. There will be almost no tables without at least one of the people burying their head in their smart phone. Ridiculous. I wish people would actually start being human beings again.... Well most of them anyway..
bh84
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7/3/2017 9:56am
I watch many sports and the last great sportsmen(for now) were mainly born between 83-87, in most of the sports I watch not many sportsmen younger...
I watch many sports and the last great sportsmen(for now) were mainly born between 83-87, in most of the sports I watch not many sportsmen younger than that year group have matched or surpassed them.

This is from.

Soccer
Australian Football
Rugby
Tennis
Motocross.
Hockey is seeing a group of young superstars take over.

McDavid
Matthews
Laine
Marner
Nylander
Eichel.

All under 22 i believe and taking over the league
steveada
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7/3/2017 10:30am Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 10:33am
I think the depth of talent is greater now than ever before. In the 70's, 80's and 90's results were pretty much based on raw talent and being crazy enough to ride closer to the edge than anyone else. Back then I also think that being on a team with a lot of money made much more of a difference because bikes basically sucked and it took a lot of money to make a bike work going fast. There was a huge difference between a factory bike and a privateer bike. Fast forward to now. Kids train full time from a very young age. I know it has always been a sport where the best always rode often and may have even ridden full time from a young age. However now, they train full time, meaning riding, strength training, cardio training, diet, supplements, etc etc. Nobody today is going to dominate based on raw talent alone, they really have to work for it. Todays bikes are so good off the showroom floor that with a bit of tweaking a privateer can have a bike that is competitive, something that NEVER was the case back in the day. Their will be more GOAT candidates in the future, but to do that the rider will have to have it all, massive talent, great support, the drive to work harder than everybody else, and some luck. I think the parity we see now is a sign of progression of the sport, not regression.
RichieW13
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7/3/2017 11:12am
mxb2 wrote:
Plenty of places to ride,. Just an excuse. Depends how bad you want to ride.
That's true. But it's much harder for a newbie to get involved if he doesn't know where the riding areas are, or he has to drive 2 hours to ride.
brocsdad
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7/3/2017 11:38am Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 11:39am
The bikes are better but they are also more expensive to build and maintain. You have $5k motors that need rebuilt every 15hrs and A-kit suspension driving the cost of a national level amateur bike upwards of $20k. That's the race bike so you will need a couple practice bikes. Sure every now and then you hear about some kid that rode a stock bike to a top 5 but that is not the norm.

In the 70s thru 90s most of the training was self motivated where now you have parents spending $30k a year so their kid can live at a training facility. My son beat a couple local kids all the time and after a year of training he couldn't touch them.

MX has become an elitist sport and though talent and hard work goes a long way you are only as fast as you can afford to be.

RichieW13
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7/3/2017 11:42am
whammy wrote:
Serious question. Post-aluminum frame Grass roots level MX probably peaked in the mid to late 2000's. Are we starting to see riders with less skill than...
Serious question. Post-aluminum frame Grass roots level MX probably peaked in the mid to late 2000's. Are we starting to see riders with less skill than years prior?


Seems like we're watching a bunch of guys race that defaulted into being top of the class(with the top of the field retiring). Even the wonder kids moving up in the 250's are not all that competitive outdoors(IE: AC, Forkner ) .The days of rookies coming out and cleaning the class seem like they are long gone(like RC and Stewart did).


I don't see anyone out there having anything for a prime RC or Stewart. Racing is racing... but this still kinda bothers me.

I haven't followed very closely until the past couple years.

5+ years ago, was it normal for top riders to go down early in a moto and then be able to work their way all the way back up to 2nd or 4th place like Baggett and Anderson did recently?
St Ann More
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7/3/2017 11:57am Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 11:58am
langhammx wrote:
Trying to take you serious, but I don't know where to start.... Blink
At the bar, the more you drink the better it'll become...
mxb2
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7/3/2017 12:20pm
mxb2 wrote:
Plenty of places to ride,. Just an excuse. Depends how bad you want to ride.
RichieW13 wrote:
That's true. But it's much harder for a newbie to get involved if he doesn't know where the riding areas are, or he has to drive...
That's true. But it's much harder for a newbie to get involved if he doesn't know where the riding areas are, or he has to drive 2 hours to ride.
Yep, I drive anyway from 20 miles to 200 to ride legally on good tracks. Social media makes it easy to find tracks for new riders. The sport isn't cheap, but it's great to ride well prepped tracks at any skill level.
philG
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7/3/2017 1:15pm
steveada wrote:
I think the depth of talent is greater now than ever before. In the 70's, 80's and 90's results were pretty much based on raw talent...
I think the depth of talent is greater now than ever before. In the 70's, 80's and 90's results were pretty much based on raw talent and being crazy enough to ride closer to the edge than anyone else. Back then I also think that being on a team with a lot of money made much more of a difference because bikes basically sucked and it took a lot of money to make a bike work going fast. There was a huge difference between a factory bike and a privateer bike. Fast forward to now. Kids train full time from a very young age. I know it has always been a sport where the best always rode often and may have even ridden full time from a young age. However now, they train full time, meaning riding, strength training, cardio training, diet, supplements, etc etc. Nobody today is going to dominate based on raw talent alone, they really have to work for it. Todays bikes are so good off the showroom floor that with a bit of tweaking a privateer can have a bike that is competitive, something that NEVER was the case back in the day. Their will be more GOAT candidates in the future, but to do that the rider will have to have it all, massive talent, great support, the drive to work harder than everybody else, and some luck. I think the parity we see now is a sign of progression of the sport, not regression.
I think you are half right. and half wrong.

The talent pool cant be deeper with less riders, that is just pure maths.. if you have 1000 riders, the top 10 will be faster than the top 10 of 100 riders.

So as the standard drops, kids who would have never made it , are numerically nearer the front.. making Loretta's when maybe they wouldnt, mummy and daddy living the dream, and the ones with dollar get little jimmy into MTF or any of the other myriad of places, to go home schooled, because they are top 20 .. when 5 years ago they wouldn't have been top 40 and 5 years before that , maybe even not top 100.

And then there are the tracks.. all fresh prepped , and watered to perfection, the same as kids ride on all week, and then only do a handful of big races, because if they did local races and got smoked it doesnt look good on their resume.

Back in the day the tracks were brutal, and no matter how fast your bike was, if you couldnt ride it , you got smoked .

The bar may have been raised in terms of overall performance,as it has in every other sport , but talent will still win over, no matter how fit you are , if you cant cut it when the gate drops,its all for nought... Pourcel is proof, the speed and technique he has in unreal , and in his prime in the US he could barely train because of his long term injuries.

The costs today stifle talent , kids cant get anywhere without a huge amount of money, and pay to ride is killing the sport . Here in the UK, the amount of proper teams is dwindling, there are maybe 5 or 6 proper Pro's the rest are all part timers, trying to eke out a living between races. People are paying to get a place on a team, just to get in the races, and as a result is that quality drops because the proper guys dont get the rides.

m1ke2001
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7/3/2017 1:24pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
Maybe when Supercross became televised, it changed things. Is there an average person in the world who would watch Anaheim 1 and say "Yeah, I wanna...
Maybe when Supercross became televised, it changed things. Is there an average person in the world who would watch Anaheim 1 and say "Yeah, I wanna do that?" Maybe it became more of a freakshow...
On the local level, it is easy to see that disappearance of riding areas and the crazy cost of bikes has led to this. Who is going to invest $12,000 in bike and gear to check the sport out? More likely they will spend a couple thousand more and get a streetbike they can ride from their front door.
I sold bikes for five years and every day I heard "I would love to get a dirt bike but there is nowhere to ride."
Where do you live? the middle of the country? If you live on the east or west coast there are places to ride every where. Ive only seen one track close down in the past few years but ive seen 2 more open. The sport is becoming more popular. Most people I know didnt have a bike 4 years ago but with in the last 2 or 3 years they started getting serious and started going to the track.
jeffro503
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7/3/2017 1:48pm
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
philG wrote:
Did you read what you wrote?? 250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but...
Did you read what you wrote??

250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but he is now the big dog in 250 along with a bunch of guys doing their damndest to not point out of SX , to the point where they all bleated till the rules got changed. Charbonneu ran top 10 in AMA and he cant get out of EMX qualification half the time , let alone get in a GP.

Im sure Reed could battle Henry Miller for 30+2 , the 450 class is fast becoming irrelevant , with the number of SX only and Canadian dropouts.

MXGP is stacked, properly, 30 riders worthy of a place, when they are all fit.



You said exactly the opposite if what's true.

Both classes here....are stacked! And to even mention what Zach was doing 5 years ago is fucking hilarious. He isn't anything like he was 5 years ago.

Waaay more depth in the nationals right now compared to the GP's. You got 10 guys in each class here that can possibly win a moto.

Over there...2 - 4 guys each class. Ferrandis was one of the only guys to beat or even sniff Herlings over there....and most races here...4th - 10th. He has the speed to win too....but again...depth!!

Not trying to start an argument but the GP's pretty much have AC and Herlings winning everything right now in mxgp. Same with MX2 with Jonas and Sewer...with an occasional Covingtion. I very much doubt any of those MX2 guys would crack a top 10 here.

Mxgp....has quite a few fast guys , but most are just not riding well this season or dealing with an injury. That....is a weak class if I've ever seen one. And I'm speaking " right now ".....as round 1 was great , but the field has thinned down to nothing.

4 X the depth here in the states right now. And weather that ruffles feathers or not...I don't really care.
m1ke2001
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7/3/2017 2:04pm
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over...
250 is stacked, way deeper than the GP's. The 23yr old rule is stupid since this is professional racing. 450 class is weaker than normal over here not because its missing any of the riders you listed. Reed? He would be 15th place. Brayton and Alessi could crack top 10. Mookie? Don't make me laugh, he'd melt after 15min on a rough track
philG wrote:
Did you read what you wrote?? 250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but...
Did you read what you wrote??

250 class is stacked with guys that should be on a 450.. Osborne won one GP here, possibly two, but he is now the big dog in 250 along with a bunch of guys doing their damndest to not point out of SX , to the point where they all bleated till the rules got changed. Charbonneu ran top 10 in AMA and he cant get out of EMX qualification half the time , let alone get in a GP.

Im sure Reed could battle Henry Miller for 30+2 , the 450 class is fast becoming irrelevant , with the number of SX only and Canadian dropouts.

MXGP is stacked, properly, 30 riders worthy of a place, when they are all fit.



jeffro503 wrote:
You said exactly the opposite if what's true. Both classes here....are stacked! And to even mention what Zach was doing 5 years ago is fucking hilarious...
You said exactly the opposite if what's true.

Both classes here....are stacked! And to even mention what Zach was doing 5 years ago is fucking hilarious. He isn't anything like he was 5 years ago.

Waaay more depth in the nationals right now compared to the GP's. You got 10 guys in each class here that can possibly win a moto.

Over there...2 - 4 guys each class. Ferrandis was one of the only guys to beat or even sniff Herlings over there....and most races here...4th - 10th. He has the speed to win too....but again...depth!!

Not trying to start an argument but the GP's pretty much have AC and Herlings winning everything right now in mxgp. Same with MX2 with Jonas and Sewer...with an occasional Covingtion. I very much doubt any of those MX2 guys would crack a top 10 here.

Mxgp....has quite a few fast guys , but most are just not riding well this season or dealing with an injury. That....is a weak class if I've ever seen one. And I'm speaking " right now ".....as round 1 was great , but the field has thinned down to nothing.

4 X the depth here in the states right now. And weather that ruffles feathers or not...I don't really care.
Couldn't have said better my self.
RichieW13
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7/3/2017 2:11pm
m1ke2001 wrote:
Where do you live? the middle of the country? If you live on the east or west coast there are places to ride every where. Ive...
Where do you live? the middle of the country? If you live on the east or west coast there are places to ride every where. Ive only seen one track close down in the past few years but ive seen 2 more open. The sport is becoming more popular. Most people I know didnt have a bike 4 years ago but with in the last 2 or 3 years they started getting serious and started going to the track.
Do most newbie motocrossers start off by riding on a track? Or, do they start off by riding in the fields/woods/desert, etc?

(I don't know the answer.)
BobPA
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7/3/2017 2:52pm
philG is the most incorrect and bitter person I have ever seen.
philG
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7/3/2017 3:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 3:27pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You said exactly the opposite if what's true. Both classes here....are stacked! And to even mention what Zach was doing 5 years ago is fucking hilarious...
You said exactly the opposite if what's true.

Both classes here....are stacked! And to even mention what Zach was doing 5 years ago is fucking hilarious. He isn't anything like he was 5 years ago.

Waaay more depth in the nationals right now compared to the GP's. You got 10 guys in each class here that can possibly win a moto.

Over there...2 - 4 guys each class. Ferrandis was one of the only guys to beat or even sniff Herlings over there....and most races here...4th - 10th. He has the speed to win too....but again...depth!!

Not trying to start an argument but the GP's pretty much have AC and Herlings winning everything right now in mxgp. Same with MX2 with Jonas and Sewer...with an occasional Covingtion. I very much doubt any of those MX2 guys would crack a top 10 here.

Mxgp....has quite a few fast guys , but most are just not riding well this season or dealing with an injury. That....is a weak class if I've ever seen one. And I'm speaking " right now ".....as round 1 was great , but the field has thinned down to nothing.

4 X the depth here in the states right now. And weather that ruffles feathers or not...I don't really care.
You are dreaming.. 450 is dead past the top 10 Wey got off the couch and scored a point , Henry Miller was 15th overall FFS

If thats stacked then i cant help you, really... there are 3 MXGP champions in the class, plus Herlings, and 10 guys who can win races , i think we have had 5 winners over 12 rounds, and even more moto winners, and there will be more. Gajser got injured, and was on a roll till then, Paulin took an overall, Febvre is finding form after a pre season knock, all these guys are contenders. Desalle won 2 on the spin, and Cairoli took till mid season to do that .



Charbonneau had top 10's in 250 , and yet he cant get through timed training in EMX most of the time.

And no Osborne isnt anything like he was 5 years ago, he is older than Dungey and still racing the feeder class, while paying to be at the Bakers factory , with a factory contract. Webb smoked him and look how he is going in 450.

Ferrandis did ok in SX, and is doing OK in 250, on tracks he has never seen, if he gets a start he is there.
philG
Posts
9720
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
7/3/2017 3:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 3:39pm
BobPA wrote:
philG is the most incorrect and bitter person I have ever seen.
No mirrors ?

Unless you watch all the races, you cant have an accurate understanding of what is going on.

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