KTM's response to Alta?

EastFlorida
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7/25/2017 8:20am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2017 3:24am
This could end up being a good situation with respect to choices...

I'm not familiar with the performance of the KTM vs the Alta...

http://racerxonline.com/2017/07/25/ktm-introduces-electric-model-to-nor…
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es337
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7/25/2017 8:23am
This bike is 3 years old at least it's just new to the us. Also the ktm is more similar to an 85 than a 250f
kkawboy14
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7/25/2017 8:25am
My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.
Brent
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7/25/2017 8:36am
The KTM has been around in Europe for while now, more of a play bike than the Alta.
Swann
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7/25/2017 8:52am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 9:11am
KTM screwed the pooch and delivered an underperforming, unimpressive first attempt at an ebike. It sits more inline with the electric assist mountain bikes whereas Alta's Redshift is a truly competitive motocross bike.

If KTM does not buy Alta, they better double-down and invest in some serious engineering to produce a bike that can compete with the Alta because right now that thing they have isn't even remotely close.

The Shop

Motofinne
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7/25/2017 8:54am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 8:59am
The KTM has been available in Europe for multiple years. It's more of a trail bike, not a bike aimed at competitive motocross racing.

Comparing the Alta to the KTM is like comparing a CRF230F to a CRF250R.
TXDirt
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7/25/2017 9:04am
KTM's response to Alta will be to buy Alta. But they better do it before Honda swoops in!!
BobPA
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7/25/2017 9:29am
Swann wrote:
KTM screwed the pooch and delivered an underperforming, unimpressive first attempt at an ebike. It sits more inline with the electric assist mountain bikes whereas Alta's...
KTM screwed the pooch and delivered an underperforming, unimpressive first attempt at an ebike. It sits more inline with the electric assist mountain bikes whereas Alta's Redshift is a truly competitive motocross bike.

If KTM does not buy Alta, they better double-down and invest in some serious engineering to produce a bike that can compete with the Alta because right now that thing they have isn't even remotely close.
KTM was not trying to design a a full on electric MX bike. It is clearly more trail oriented.
p0wn
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7/25/2017 9:33am
KTM is apparently going to be selling these things at a loss just to get them out there in the US. They are also in no way competitive with the Alta.
JRT812
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7/25/2017 9:33am
KTM to Alta - name your price
7/25/2017 11:01am
The run time is stated at "around and hour" so you won't be getting to too many trails... The power output is pretty small compared to the Alta as well. This bike seems way overpriced even though it's 60% cheaper than the Alta.
Lastander
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7/25/2017 12:00pm
Yep as stated above.
KTM dealers sold these last year with a discount of 50-60% i think, just because no one bought one, and it was still around 4-5000$, just for a trail bike
APLMAN99
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7/25/2017 12:07pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either...
My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.
The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....
bayodome
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7/25/2017 12:35pm
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.
endurox
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7/25/2017 2:13pm
bayodome wrote:
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've...
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.
Tesla is getting you and I to subsize their automobiiles at the Tune of 7500$ plus carbon tax stuff. I do not think Alta has this advantage going for them.
TXDirt
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7/25/2017 2:32pm


downard254
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7/25/2017 2:36pm
Brent wrote:
The KTM has been around in Europe for while now, more of a play bike than the Alta.
I'd guess KTM's bike was more of a test mule, but what the hell do I know.
APLMAN99
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7/25/2017 4:25pm
bayodome wrote:
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've...
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.
endurox wrote:
Tesla is getting you and I to subsize their automobiiles at the Tune of 7500$ plus carbon tax stuff. I do not think Alta has this...
Tesla is getting you and I to subsize their automobiiles at the Tune of 7500$ plus carbon tax stuff. I do not think Alta has this advantage going for them.
They do on their street legal bikes. It's roughly a similar percentage, $1500 on a RedShift SM.
dcg141
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7/25/2017 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 5:46pm
Speaking as a dealer, I think the retail price needs to come down before its a viable option. I believe KTM feels the same way and knows that that is still a few years away.
Swann
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7/25/2017 5:52pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 5:59pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do...
The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....
Alta has had five funding rounds, the most recent being a $27 million series B funding in June of this year.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles#

The big boys are not nimble enough to take this kind of risk. They do not have the deep coffers to spin up a massive R&D, design and manufacturing effort and focus on releasing an entirely and fundamentally different product. They also risk cannibalizing their traditional bike sales in certain markets like the United States and would need more than a few years to plan for and adjust things to gracefully make a transition like that. Frankly I don't think that they took this seriously enough or didn't anticipated the pace that somebody like Alta would introduce something like this.

Alta is an acquisition target or will stand-alone and continue to innovate and release new products/offerings through continued capital investment or, like Tesla, will go public to raise funds. Their battery pack (which is proprietary IP) and motor combo alone has applications that extend beyond motorcycles. They still have quite a number of bike models they could release within the next year or so. They also were partners in a military contract to build a special hybrid military bike called "Silent Hawk"

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/05/look-militarys-new-stealth…

Alta will become more than just another motorcycle company. They already are not just another motorcycle company. Pretty cool to see a little disruption in what has been a pretty stagnant and tumultuous market for a very long time.
APLMAN99
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7/25/2017 6:05pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do...
The Alta gang is from the original Tesla team. I'd bet that fact alone would bring some decent VC capital to the plate when they do funding rounds.....
Swann wrote:
Alta has had five funding rounds, the most recent being a $27 million series B funding in June of this year. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles# The big boys are...
Alta has had five funding rounds, the most recent being a $27 million series B funding in June of this year.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles#

The big boys are not nimble enough to take this kind of risk. They do not have the deep coffers to spin up a massive R&D, design and manufacturing effort and focus on releasing an entirely and fundamentally different product. They also risk cannibalizing their traditional bike sales in certain markets like the United States and would need more than a few years to plan for and adjust things to gracefully make a transition like that. Frankly I don't think that they took this seriously enough or didn't anticipated the pace that somebody like Alta would introduce something like this.

Alta is an acquisition target or will stand-alone and continue to innovate and release new products/offerings through continued capital investment or, like Tesla, will go public to raise funds. Their battery pack (which is proprietary IP) and motor combo alone has applications that extend beyond motorcycles. They still have quite a number of bike models they could release within the next year or so. They also were partners in a military contract to build a special hybrid military bike called "Silent Hawk"

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/05/look-militarys-new-stealth…

Alta will become more than just another motorcycle company. They already are not just another motorcycle company. Pretty cool to see a little disruption in what has been a pretty stagnant and tumultuous market for a very long time.
Interesting to see that Tesla has already invested in them. Also Bob Fox........
APLMAN99
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7/25/2017 6:14pm
bayodome wrote:
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've...
Alta is in a similar position to Tesla at the moment. They're small but have the best electric option by far. The Freeride E (which I've ridden on a few occasions) is fun but is more in the realm of a TTR125 than a full-size bike. I'm sure there are some great things coming in the near future from the big OEMs, but for now Alta is the only true full size MX bike out there.
I think the Zero is fairly viable, although they don't seem to be as interested in an off road competition type of bike at the moment. But according to their website, they have over 100 law enforcement agencies using their fleet services.

Be interesting to see how Zero's battery development progresses to see if they can stay a viable maker......
Swann
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7/25/2017 6:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 6:50pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Well, this might cancel out Zero from future development......

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/stuntwoman-sues-for-injuries-suffered-…
Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.
mark911
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7/25/2017 6:53pm
I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a new Alta dealership here in the Inland Empire but never heard back from Alta.


APLMAN99
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7/25/2017 7:01pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Well, this might cancel out Zero from future development......

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/stuntwoman-sues-for-injuries-suffered-…
Swann wrote:
Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside...
Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.
Yeah, could go any which way. But it sounds like the bike was a year and a half old and if it was used heavily as a "stunt bike" each weekend, that could add up to an awful lot of abuse, stress, etc.
Jbulz
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7/25/2017 7:04pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Well, this might cancel out Zero from future development......

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/stuntwoman-sues-for-injuries-suffered-…
Swann wrote:
Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside...
Holy crap I had no idea that happened to Sarah Whitmore. That's horrible... I bet they chose the Zero bike because of the exhaust issue inside of United Center without any real consideration to the suitability of the bike.

That definitely doesn't bode well for Zero and Feld has a role in that as well. Yikes.
Wow that is terrible.

I haven't heard much about Zero's off-road efforts, but I did get to test ride a Zero off-road bike at Southwick about 8-10 years ago. That bike was cool to try, but was little more than a motorized mountain bike, and they wouldn't let us take the bike anywhere else than the start straight, because the track was too rough.

It was a cool experience to ride it, but no way would I consider jumping one...
Swann
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7/25/2017 8:20pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2017 8:22pm
mark911 wrote:
I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a...
I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a new Alta dealership here in the Inland Empire but never heard back from Alta.


Only coincidence is the market for KTMs is the same as for an Alta. Someone willing to spend $10k on a KTM will likely spend $15k on an Alta, assuming they understand and appreciate the value there (which is a very different value judgement than buying a normal dirt bike).

The Inland Empire isn't going to be a strong market for a $15k motorcycle right now. As someone mentioned earlier, the price will need to come down before it's approachable to the average buyer.
burn1986
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7/25/2017 9:05pm
$15K will never be appropriate, especially over the next 5 years. If they could get it down to maybe $8-9K, maybe.
7/25/2017 10:06pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either...
My guess is Alta will have a hard time competing against the big motorcycle companies. A lot of lawn equipment electric stuff from small companies either got sold or closed due to the sales going to the bigger names offering better warranties and service.

So far in the car industry people will point to Tesla as success against the big companies but for sure that is an unusual financial backing by the owner, businesses and government combination.
When Honda, toyota, ford or gm start making there e-cars that are not just tiny tree hugger cars, Tesla will be in trouble.
mark911
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7/26/2017 12:19am
mark911 wrote:
I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a...
I've noticed that all the Alta dealers here in SoCal are also KTM dealers. Coincidence? After I bought my Redshift I actually applied to start a new Alta dealership here in the Inland Empire but never heard back from Alta.


Swann wrote:
Only coincidence is the market for KTMs is the same as for an Alta. Someone willing to spend $10k on a KTM will likely spend $15k...
Only coincidence is the market for KTMs is the same as for an Alta. Someone willing to spend $10k on a KTM will likely spend $15k on an Alta, assuming they understand and appreciate the value there (which is a very different value judgement than buying a normal dirt bike).

The Inland Empire isn't going to be a strong market for a $15k motorcycle right now. As someone mentioned earlier, the price will need to come down before it's approachable to the average buyer.
Let me elaborate. Not only do all the SoCal Alta dealers carry KTM or Husky they also DON'T carry any of the big four as well! Maybe there's some language in the big four contracts that prevent picking up a mfg like Alta, just kinda strange.

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