New Yamaha 2 strokes coming when?

Zesiger 112
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12/4/2017 11:24am
So if Yamaha wants to save cash on the yz 2 stroke line. Why don't they move production to thier Thailand or is it Indonesia factory...
So if Yamaha wants to save cash on the yz 2 stroke line. Why don't they move production to thier Thailand or is it Indonesia factory where the R3 street bike is made?
I would bet that the 2 stroke line is made on the same assembly line as the 4 stroke and they just change over tools, and supply for that run.

So to move it would mean building another off-road assembly line just for the 2 strokes. That would probably only run part time
JM485
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12/4/2017 12:25pm
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike. On a bike that weights 230lbs ready to ride, that's a massive 3% change in weight. . . I know we all love to play factory Test rider on the internet, but there is no way in hell that you can honestly tell me with a straight face that you would feel that, especially near the center of the bike. And complexity, come on man, is the starter in your car so complex that you can't change it out?

I'm not asking for EFI, I'm not asking for a composite frame, I'm asking for a fricken little electric motor, minor geometry change, and an off the shelf swing arm update. Do you really think that after 10+ years that's too much to ask for? The bike is awesome as it is, no doubt about it as I'm more than happy with mine, but these small changes would put it on much more even ground with the ktm, and keep the same tried and true platform we've come to know from the YZ.
12/4/2017 12:46pm
Keep it the same. All it needs Is to be able to stop like the KTM and I’ll be back on a brand new yz250 2t
IceMan446
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12/4/2017 1:09pm
Don't think it will happen in 2019 but there will be updates made.



The Shop

12/4/2017 1:10pm
Keep it the same. All it needs Is to be able to stop like the KTM and I’ll be back on a brand new yz250 2t
Get rid of the floating front rotor and go to a non floating rotor will improve feeling. Ktm n cr's don't have floating rotors. A braided brake line and a cr or kx master cylinder I prefer the kx I like the banjo bolt on the front side offers better lever placement options.
Stuntman949
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12/4/2017 1:57pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Don't think it will happen in 2019 but there will be updates made.



So when the 2019s come out, swoop in on some cheap 18s?
Skerby
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12/4/2017 2:17pm
FGR01 wrote:
For the love of god... please don't let that hideous giant hippo of a chassis that the 4-strokes use anywhere near the 2-strokes. For starters, it's...
For the love of god... please don't let that hideous giant hippo of a chassis that the 4-strokes use anywhere near the 2-strokes. For starters, it's fugly......

And why on earth would you want e-start on a 2-stroke? They fire up 1st kick easily.

All these guys that want EFI and e-start on 2-strokes are going to kill this sport for good. The beauty of the 2-strokes is the light weight, simplicity, and relative affordability. More 2002-2006 CR250's were sold off craigslist last year than Honda sold new CRF450's for a reason.
Bruneval wrote:
You might be onto something. I helped a friend re-build the motor on his 2003 CR250 recently. The cylinders have been on backorder from Honda for...
You might be onto something. I helped a friend re-build the motor on his 2003 CR250 recently. The cylinders have been on backorder from Honda for months now, either meaning Honda is hardly producing them anymore, or potentially, the demand is very strong and outstripping supply. I suspect the latter. For a bike that's 15 years old now, I was pleasantly surprised how easy all the other parts were to obtain.The market is definitely there.
I had a f$%^ing STASH of 2003 CR250 parts that I gave away in like 2008. At least 3 pipes, couple cylinders.....

I just gave them to some hillbilly.
Bruneval
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12/4/2017 3:34pm
Skerby wrote:
I had a f$%^ing STASH of 2003 CR250 parts that I gave away in like 2008. At least 3 pipes, couple cylinders..... I just gave them...
I had a f$%^ing STASH of 2003 CR250 parts that I gave away in like 2008. At least 3 pipes, couple cylinders.....

I just gave them to some hillbilly.


vetmxr
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12/4/2017 4:01pm
JM485 wrote:
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike...
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike. On a bike that weights 230lbs ready to ride, that's a massive 3% change in weight. . . I know we all love to play factory Test rider on the internet, but there is no way in hell that you can honestly tell me with a straight face that you would feel that, especially near the center of the bike. And complexity, come on man, is the starter in your car so complex that you can't change it out?

I'm not asking for EFI, I'm not asking for a composite frame, I'm asking for a fricken little electric motor, minor geometry change, and an off the shelf swing arm update. Do you really think that after 10+ years that's too much to ask for? The bike is awesome as it is, no doubt about it as I'm more than happy with mine, but these small changes would put it on much more even ground with the ktm, and keep the same tried and true platform we've come to know from the YZ.
To each their own, but I don't see me buying a brand new motorcycle ever again that doesn't have electric start. I would choose the ktm over the yz just for that reason alone. With the exception of an electric bike.

I may be an older dude, but I have raced for many years and I'm convinced that electric start is an advantage in the heat of battle or stalling on steep hills. People that say they would never want one makes me wonder if they ever had a bike with one on it.
12/4/2017 4:46pm
I think cosmetic updates would be fine but being a fan of Beta’s, Sherco’s etc etc.
There come problems with the E-Start and just trying to get too tech on the 2T’s.
KTM has one thought in mind and that’s dollar signs. I’ll pass on that TPI as long as I can. I think the YZ125/250 is about as perfect mx 2T bikes you can get.
Off-road guys have different demands.
I wish the tech would slow down personally but I’m 43 and that’s what happens in life.

Ghost
SoCalMX70
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12/4/2017 4:59pm
Put an electric start on the YZ250X, that's it. I can see the value of it for offroad. Maybe a bigger stock tank with a more streamlined design (not affecting seat angle like the crap aftermarket ones).

As far as all models go, a few geometry changes wouldn't hurt, as mentioned already. The motor doesn't need much other than a better designed cylinder head. The YZ isn't really THAT down on power.
Rhino
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12/6/2017 10:48am
Indymxer wrote:
If you need E-start on a two-stroke, you may as well add some spoke skins.
LMAO
12/6/2017 11:13am
Why would Yamaha ever consider a remake of these, the demand is not there! Motocross is .01% of their business, not worth it. KTM group is focused for offroad.. Yamaha, far for their main focus.
Micahdogg
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12/6/2017 1:12pm
Why would Yamaha ever consider a remake of these, the demand is not there! Motocross is .01% of their business, not worth it. KTM group is...
Why would Yamaha ever consider a remake of these, the demand is not there! Motocross is .01% of their business, not worth it. KTM group is focused for offroad.. Yamaha, far for their main focus.
Where was all this demand in the mid 90's for a fire breathing four stroke, about 30lbs heavier than the YZ250, that you needed to perform a religious ritual to start, and you needed to remove the exhaust for an oil change?

12/6/2017 3:56pm
I think cosmetic updates would be fine but being a fan of Beta’s, Sherco’s etc etc. There come problems with the E-Start and just trying to...
I think cosmetic updates would be fine but being a fan of Beta’s, Sherco’s etc etc.
There come problems with the E-Start and just trying to get too tech on the 2T’s.
KTM has one thought in mind and that’s dollar signs. I’ll pass on that TPI as long as I can. I think the YZ125/250 is about as perfect mx 2T bikes you can get.
Off-road guys have different demands.
I wish the tech would slow down personally but I’m 43 and that’s what happens in life.

Ghost
I believe this would be the right answer, if Yamaha does ANYTHING.

Add a better coil and stator on the 250X to actually run lights, and improve the existing 250 head. The 125 is pretty close to being perfect for what it is.

I would honestly just like to see an expanded Yamaha powerparts for the bikes. The current GYTR kit for the 125 costs an arm and a leg; Yamaha should release a 150 kit, as well as sell YZ150s in stock form that can be converted back to 125s. Add an OEM support 285 or 300 kit for the 250 and bam, offroad guys are pleased Laughing

I don’t care much for newly designed bikes, but the OEM support doesn’t compare in any way to KTM and their powerparts.
305FC250
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12/6/2017 5:10pm
I think cosmetic updates would be fine but being a fan of Beta’s, Sherco’s etc etc. There come problems with the E-Start and just trying to...
I think cosmetic updates would be fine but being a fan of Beta’s, Sherco’s etc etc.
There come problems with the E-Start and just trying to get too tech on the 2T’s.
KTM has one thought in mind and that’s dollar signs. I’ll pass on that TPI as long as I can. I think the YZ125/250 is about as perfect mx 2T bikes you can get.
Off-road guys have different demands.
I wish the tech would slow down personally but I’m 43 and that’s what happens in life.

Ghost
I believe this would be the right answer, if Yamaha does ANYTHING. Add a better coil and stator on the 250X to actually run lights, and...
I believe this would be the right answer, if Yamaha does ANYTHING.

Add a better coil and stator on the 250X to actually run lights, and improve the existing 250 head. The 125 is pretty close to being perfect for what it is.

I would honestly just like to see an expanded Yamaha powerparts for the bikes. The current GYTR kit for the 125 costs an arm and a leg; Yamaha should release a 150 kit, as well as sell YZ150s in stock form that can be converted back to 125s. Add an OEM support 285 or 300 kit for the 250 and bam, offroad guys are pleased Laughing

I don’t care much for newly designed bikes, but the OEM support doesn’t compare in any way to KTM and their powerparts.
I think this is a great point. If Yamaha offered more of this kind of stuff, plus made some updates to their engine to be more competitive with the power that KTM/Husky is getting out of their smokers, then I would be sold on buying a new Yamaha 2 stroke.

The bikes don't need a lot of changes. When you look at tests and comparisons the main advantage all the test riders give the KTM is the engine and that it's more nimble in the handling department. I don't think it would take a whole lot for Yamaha to address these two things, especially the engines I feel can be easily improved to be more competitive without doing a whole redesign. Plus the addition of reasonably priced bigger displacement kits and I'd probably be selling my TC125 knocking down my dealers door to buy a blue 2 stroke.
Alex814
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12/6/2017 5:32pm
I like the ideas about more Yamaha parts as well, they are charging quite a lot for the new YZ's and it shouldn't be a lot to ask for some of these changes.
FGR01
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12/6/2017 10:49pm
JM485 wrote:
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike...
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike. On a bike that weights 230lbs ready to ride, that's a massive 3% change in weight. . . I know we all love to play factory Test rider on the internet, but there is no way in hell that you can honestly tell me with a straight face that you would feel that, especially near the center of the bike. And complexity, come on man, is the starter in your car so complex that you can't change it out?

I'm not asking for EFI, I'm not asking for a composite frame, I'm asking for a fricken little electric motor, minor geometry change, and an off the shelf swing arm update. Do you really think that after 10+ years that's too much to ask for? The bike is awesome as it is, no doubt about it as I'm more than happy with mine, but these small changes would put it on much more even ground with the ktm, and keep the same tried and true platform we've come to know from the YZ.
Yes, I absolutely could feel 7 lbs added to my YZ125 or YZ250. And I personally like being able to just throw the bike in the truck and go ride and not have to worry about keeping a battery charged. Just one more thing to deal with for little to no benefit.

But, more importantly, the young people we need to attract to this sport will feel it hit their wallet. This sport needs simple, cheap bikes. You know, like the ones we grew up on in the 80's and 90's? More technology and more features just puts MX closer to the grave.
JM485
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12/7/2017 6:58am
FGR01 wrote:
Yes, I absolutely could feel 7 lbs added to my YZ125 or YZ250. And I personally like being able to just throw the bike in the...
Yes, I absolutely could feel 7 lbs added to my YZ125 or YZ250. And I personally like being able to just throw the bike in the truck and go ride and not have to worry about keeping a battery charged. Just one more thing to deal with for little to no benefit.

But, more importantly, the young people we need to attract to this sport will feel it hit their wallet. This sport needs simple, cheap bikes. You know, like the ones we grew up on in the 80's and 90's? More technology and more features just puts MX closer to the grave.
I was born in 95, so I no, I don't know about the cheap bikes of the past. Here's the bottom line though, these bikes aren't cheap (especially for what they are, the price is a joke), and anyone just getting into riding isn't going to the dealer to buy a new yz250. I know everyone loves to think of that happy little story in their head, but it's just not reality, the used market is too strong and makes much more sense for a beginner.

As for the hassle of electric start, just kick the bike first thing in the morning and you're good to go. Keeping it on a battery tender in your garage would be a good idea, but if that's too much hassle or if you're camping overnight one kick should be fine to get things going for the day. As for the cost, I have a hard time believing they can't justify it. These bikes have done nothing but go up in price with no changes, I think they can afford to add a little benefit at this point without a price increase. Those new plastic molds a few years ago definitely weren't cheap, so there is invioualy some interest in keeping the line alive. We'll agree to disagree on the weight, but I have a hard time believing a couple lbs near the centroid of the bike is going to be a deal breaker handling wise.
12/7/2017 8:34am
I believe this would be the right answer, if Yamaha does ANYTHING. Add a better coil and stator on the 250X to actually run lights, and...
I believe this would be the right answer, if Yamaha does ANYTHING.

Add a better coil and stator on the 250X to actually run lights, and improve the existing 250 head. The 125 is pretty close to being perfect for what it is.

I would honestly just like to see an expanded Yamaha powerparts for the bikes. The current GYTR kit for the 125 costs an arm and a leg; Yamaha should release a 150 kit, as well as sell YZ150s in stock form that can be converted back to 125s. Add an OEM support 285 or 300 kit for the 250 and bam, offroad guys are pleased Laughing

I don’t care much for newly designed bikes, but the OEM support doesn’t compare in any way to KTM and their powerparts.
Agree fully here. As it stands, I'm going to be rigging up an LED light bar on removable mounts with a battery pack for the times a ride goes a little long.

A GYTR 300 kit would be amazing, and I would likely do it the first time I need to refurbish a head/cylinder.

Things I would like to see on the 250x: Larger tank and e-start, and a lighting coil, they would sell even more of these bikes as I'm sure they do lose some Yamaha guys to the likes of KTM and Husky.
I'm pretty sure in Australia you can get a YZ250X with a headlight running off a proper coil... So why not in North America?

I was contacted by a dealer out here with a low hour, beta 300rr, $2000 in aftermarket stuff for a good price, but I'm sure I would feel let down by the suspension the first time I try and take it the the mx track for fun.

brocsdad
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12/7/2017 11:08am
I just posted this in the 65 thread.

According the Yamaha guys under the tent at Loretta's you will see a YZ65 and a redesigned 85 in 2019 or 2020. As far as the big bikes they are selling every 125 and 250 they make. So you probably will not see anything new on the big bike side.

At some point they will need to redesign the big bikes or when sales drop they will discontinue them.

On another I had a 16 KTM 125 and my son never really liked. We bought a 17 YZ 125 and he loves it!
12/7/2017 12:16pm
I'd jump on a YZ250X if they did the following:
1 - Counterbalanced engine
My main race bike is a 2017 KTM 450XC-F and it's amazing. I also have a 2007 YZ250 project bike that is a woods
racer. I can't believe how much the YZ vibrates. I've ridden a few KTM's with the counterbalanced engine and it's a
huge difference.
2 - Six-speed transmission
My KTM is a 5 speed, but it's also a 450. I really used my Husaberg's 6th gear when going across a field between
sections. The wide-ratio has a few that are just too big of gaps.
3 - Steel braided brake lines
This is an easy one and a rather modest change.
4 - Oversized translucent gas tank (2.7+ capacity)
I have the acerbis oversized tank on my YZ and it looks funky. The KTM wraps theirs much better and doesn't look
like an eyesore.
5 - E-start
A must for hard enduro type terrain. Not needed for MX.

Stuntman949
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12/7/2017 12:37pm
I'd jump on a YZ250X if they did the following: 1 - Counterbalanced engine My main race bike is a 2017 KTM 450XC-F and it's amazing...
I'd jump on a YZ250X if they did the following:
1 - Counterbalanced engine
My main race bike is a 2017 KTM 450XC-F and it's amazing. I also have a 2007 YZ250 project bike that is a woods
racer. I can't believe how much the YZ vibrates. I've ridden a few KTM's with the counterbalanced engine and it's a
huge difference.
2 - Six-speed transmission
My KTM is a 5 speed, but it's also a 450. I really used my Husaberg's 6th gear when going across a field between
sections. The wide-ratio has a few that are just too big of gaps.
3 - Steel braided brake lines
This is an easy one and a rather modest change.
4 - Oversized translucent gas tank (2.7+ capacity)
I have the acerbis oversized tank on my YZ and it looks funky. The KTM wraps theirs much better and doesn't look
like an eyesore.
5 - E-start
A must for hard enduro type terrain. Not needed for MX.

#3+ #4+ a lighting coil would be perfect. Husqvarna is killing it with the TE line. I wanted one until I saw they were $11,000
Zesiger 112
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12/7/2017 2:55pm
I forgot in my other post...mxa says the 250x 3rd gear is better and the regular yz has a gap. As far as I've looked they are interchangeable.

I haven't had mine long enough to feel that gap yet.
b_kowalsk
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12/7/2017 3:48pm
I don't think we will ever see any noteworthy updates as much as we all want them. It is more likely that they will be discontinued before they do anything to them. Hopefully Yamaha makes me a liar but for now we just have to take what we have and be happy.

I used to ride a 06 YZ125, don't get me wrong it was a great bike but after 10 years of riding the same bike I got tired of it and sold it. Ended up buying a 2007 CR just to try something different. Had Yamaha made any significant updates to the YZ I would have plunked down the cash for a new one. I am a die hard Japanese bike rider but KTM may convert me soon if Yamaha doesn't step up.
reded
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12/7/2017 5:39pm
JM485 wrote:
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike...
You guys complaining about weight and "complexity" of E-start have to be kidding me. Let's say, just for kicks, that E-start adds 7lbs to the bike. On a bike that weights 230lbs ready to ride, that's a massive 3% change in weight. . . I know we all love to play factory Test rider on the internet, but there is no way in hell that you can honestly tell me with a straight face that you would feel that, especially near the center of the bike. And complexity, come on man, is the starter in your car so complex that you can't change it out?

I'm not asking for EFI, I'm not asking for a composite frame, I'm asking for a fricken little electric motor, minor geometry change, and an off the shelf swing arm update. Do you really think that after 10+ years that's too much to ask for? The bike is awesome as it is, no doubt about it as I'm more than happy with mine, but these small changes would put it on much more even ground with the ktm, and keep the same tried and true platform we've come to know from the YZ.
JM, you have a PM. Been trying to contact you.
Rockinar
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12/7/2017 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 12/7/2017 6:50pm
I think Yamaha 2 strokes will bite the dust. Does not seem to be much demand for them. Why buy outdated Yama when for $700 more you can get an updated Husky with better parts and more power.

Seems like people who buy 2 strokes all go for Husq or KTM. Better bike and you have the 150 option too.
brocsdad
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12/8/2017 10:14am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2017 11:16am
Rockinar wrote:
I think Yamaha 2 strokes will bite the dust. Does not seem to be much demand for them. Why buy outdated Yama when for $700 more...
I think Yamaha 2 strokes will bite the dust. Does not seem to be much demand for them. Why buy outdated Yama when for $700 more you can get an updated Husky with better parts and more power.

Seems like people who buy 2 strokes all go for Husq or KTM. Better bike and you have the 150 option too.
They are selling every one they make. That's kind of the problem. Until sales drop you probably will not see a new YZ 125/250. Or they will just discontinue the YZ 125 and 250.

There starting lines at amateur nationals are still filled with YZ's that are still winning. They were winning at the Mini O's last month.

The current KTM's are better than previous years but they haven't leap frogged past the YZ. Surratt raced a 10 year old CR 250 (found on Craigslist) built by Terry Varner and won the 2-stroke Championship.

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