Old 2 strokes vs. New two strokes

urbanlift707
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Humboldt, CA US
1/5/2018 8:22pm
I used to wonder that too when I had my rm250. I finally pulled the trigger and went from this 2006
To my 2017 sx250, as much as I loved and still love that rm, the ax is superior in all aspects. And not just by a little bit, as someone who races 450’s it is so much easier to keep up with them on the Ktm, the motor is that much better.

wpark89
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Mattawa, WA US
1/5/2018 8:52pm
The problem with asking any opinion on vital is that everyone has a different one and it can make things more confusing than clear.

I love RMs. I raced them from 1992-1999. Took 00 and 01 off and rode KTM 125/250s...then back to RMs. Between 06-15 I went through 6 2006/2007 RM 125s/250s. All along I was hearing how awesome the KTM 2 strokes were, how they just kept getting updated and better every year. So I finally got a 250 SX in 15....and initially I was totally disappointed. I missed my RM...in 10 years the KTM didn't get much better than the old Suzuki. Once the jetting was figured out it ran good and was a bit faster...but it wasn't night and day. The old RMs suspension was better, it handled better. The KTM needed revalved and some time to get used to it.

Anyway I'd say if you had a newer 06/07 RM I'd keep it, but since you've got an older one and are looking at putting a lot of money and work into it to go off road...just get a newer KTM. A new bike is still a new bike...but I felt at little mislead about how incredible the KTMs were. Those old Suzukis are fantastic bikes
motardchris
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
1/5/2018 9:48pm
Thanks for the replies guys! My RM is old but it's mechanically brand new. The only original part on it is the frame. The suspension is awesome and the motor is awesome. My issues with the bike are minimal however the small list of parts I want for a off-road setup is pretty costly and I know I'd never see a return on that money. The more I think about it the more I think a 15+ 300xc is the way to go.
SwingHard
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Sacramento, CA US
1/5/2018 10:29pm
chump6784 wrote:
I went from an 07 RM250 to a 12 ktm250sx, the ktm was a better bike and the newer ones are better again. All that said...
I went from an 07 RM250 to a 12 ktm250sx, the ktm was a better bike and the newer ones are better again. All that said I felt more comfortablein the RM, I never gelled with the ergo's of the ktm
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and...
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and almost exclusively ktm when it comes to two strokes, I'm thinking there may be reason for that beyond them just being newer with better brakes.
chump6784 wrote:
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model...
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model I had and are supposed to feel more like a japanese bike.

One drawback I found with the KTM though, the things rust. Parts like axle nuts, bolts on the engine, things that don't rust on a japanese bike rust on a ktm. I found it easier to keep rust off the bare metal pipe on the RM125 that was sitting right next to my ktm. Now I have 2 ktm 50's in the garage and its the same story, the bare metal pipes on my yz250 and yz125 are easier to keep rust off than the 50's.

However you may start to find getting parts for your RM will become or has become difficult. Anything oem will be drying up.

I would also look at the YZ250x. I now ride a YZ250 and prefer it as a total package to the RM or KTM and I find the build quality higher on the Yamaha. Sure the KTM comes with brembo's, E start, hydro clutch but I feel the Yamaha is built better, just feels more solid to work on
I'm glad you brought up the YZ-250X! I had the opportunity to ride one,very impressive bike. Did some laps on a MX track,it worked great. Took it out in a open area,perfect! Liked it so much,I will be adding one to my garage next week. My current 2stroke is a 08 RM-250, great bike as we all know! The 18' YZ-X made it feel like a old vintage bike.

The Shop

jeffro503
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St Helens, OR US
1/5/2018 10:39pm
Thanks for the replies guys! My RM is old but it's mechanically brand new. The only original part on it is the frame. The suspension is...
Thanks for the replies guys! My RM is old but it's mechanically brand new. The only original part on it is the frame. The suspension is awesome and the motor is awesome. My issues with the bike are minimal however the small list of parts I want for a off-road setup is pretty costly and I know I'd never see a return on that money. The more I think about it the more I think a 15+ 300xc is the way to go.
I can't really give an opinion on the ability of the RM's on off road riding. For the track , I think they are still extremely competitive. Keep em' fresh , maintained and setup for you specifically , they can be a great moto weapon. Good luck on whatever you choose.
motardchris
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Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
1/5/2018 10:40pm
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and...
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and almost exclusively ktm when it comes to two strokes, I'm thinking there may be reason for that beyond them just being newer with better brakes.
chump6784 wrote:
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model...
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model I had and are supposed to feel more like a japanese bike.

One drawback I found with the KTM though, the things rust. Parts like axle nuts, bolts on the engine, things that don't rust on a japanese bike rust on a ktm. I found it easier to keep rust off the bare metal pipe on the RM125 that was sitting right next to my ktm. Now I have 2 ktm 50's in the garage and its the same story, the bare metal pipes on my yz250 and yz125 are easier to keep rust off than the 50's.

However you may start to find getting parts for your RM will become or has become difficult. Anything oem will be drying up.

I would also look at the YZ250x. I now ride a YZ250 and prefer it as a total package to the RM or KTM and I find the build quality higher on the Yamaha. Sure the KTM comes with brembo's, E start, hydro clutch but I feel the Yamaha is built better, just feels more solid to work on
SwingHard wrote:
I'm glad you brought up the YZ-250X! I had the opportunity to ride one,very impressive bike. Did some laps on a MX track,it worked great. Took...
I'm glad you brought up the YZ-250X! I had the opportunity to ride one,very impressive bike. Did some laps on a MX track,it worked great. Took it out in a open area,perfect! Liked it so much,I will be adding one to my garage next week. My current 2stroke is a 08 RM-250, great bike as we all know! The 18' YZ-X made it feel like a old vintage bike.
I've ridden a newer YZ250 but never a YZ250x. I would never trade my RM for a YZ. The only thing special to me about a YZ is the stock suspension but i'd never run stock suspension on my bike. I prefer the chassis of the RM big time. Plus no one really buys the 250x so there's non for sell used.
hyler199
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4/23/2017
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CA
1/5/2018 11:04pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2018 11:09pm
Technically my first bike ever is a 2013 sx250 built for woods and its really all i know. I grew up riding other peoples bikes lol and only had maybe 20 hours total on a bike till a couple years ago.

My Dads got a 98 wr250 2 stroke thats oem AF and well kept and I love riding it but definately enjoy hopping back on my bike a lot more. Simple things it feels like a better cockpit to me. I feel Jap bikes the levers get too close to your other fingers if squeezed hard...I could be wrong.

I have ridden my Uncles 2009 300xcw in his back dirt roads at his cotttage and loved the difference in power and transmission. I dam near crashed the thing it is deceptively super fast lol

I always check bolts are tight because of 2stroke vibration and there is a little wear on my frame which i plan on powder coating for 2019. I took too long to put frame guards on...

18 inch wheel is a huge difference for me in the kind of tracks I ride and my weight. Also grabbed a flywheel weight which really made me a lot smoother but still had the power when needed.

Jetting is key also!

Take a look at Husky aswell, although similar they have differences. See if you can ride one or the other somehow.

Goodluck!!
1/5/2018 11:54pm
They're better in every way but its the rider who makes them work at the end of the day.
H4L
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CA US
1/6/2018 6:55am
It's really up to the individual if they wan't to have a more affordable alternative on a 250 2T. There are options if the person is willing to invest a little time & money on a used 2000 + bike. The 17-18 KTM / Huskies aren't going to make you any faster. Below is a link of a guy racing on an 02 CR2 that is basically stock with a Dep pipe & suspension work.

He is racing a 15 yr. old bike against 17 KTM's at a high pro level. The rider was right there on the starts & finish line on the old iron. Keep in mind for the average Joe weekend warrior the same results could be had. I've experienced this myself at the local level & didn't feel at a disadvantage when I lined up against modern bikes.

https://youtu.be/A4eNJop_KC8?t=595
motardchris
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
1/6/2018 10:32am
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and...
That's the sort of reply I was looking for. I love my RM it's an awesome bike but with 99% of off-road guys riding KTMs and almost exclusively ktm when it comes to two strokes, I'm thinking there may be reason for that beyond them just being newer with better brakes.
chump6784 wrote:
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model...
The ktm was better in every way, more power, better brakes, better chassis, suspension was about equal. The newer generation ktm's are improved on the model I had and are supposed to feel more like a japanese bike.

One drawback I found with the KTM though, the things rust. Parts like axle nuts, bolts on the engine, things that don't rust on a japanese bike rust on a ktm. I found it easier to keep rust off the bare metal pipe on the RM125 that was sitting right next to my ktm. Now I have 2 ktm 50's in the garage and its the same story, the bare metal pipes on my yz250 and yz125 are easier to keep rust off than the 50's.

However you may start to find getting parts for your RM will become or has become difficult. Anything oem will be drying up.

I would also look at the YZ250x. I now ride a YZ250 and prefer it as a total package to the RM or KTM and I find the build quality higher on the Yamaha. Sure the KTM comes with brembo's, E start, hydro clutch but I feel the Yamaha is built better, just feels more solid to work on
SwingHard wrote:
I'm glad you brought up the YZ-250X! I had the opportunity to ride one,very impressive bike. Did some laps on a MX track,it worked great. Took...
I'm glad you brought up the YZ-250X! I had the opportunity to ride one,very impressive bike. Did some laps on a MX track,it worked great. Took it out in a open area,perfect! Liked it so much,I will be adding one to my garage next week. My current 2stroke is a 08 RM-250, great bike as we all know! The 18' YZ-X made it feel like a old vintage bike.
I've ridden a newer YZ250 but never a YZ250x. I would never trade my RM for a YZ. The only thing special to me about a YZ is the stock suspension but i'd never run stock suspension on my bike. I prefer the chassis of the RM big time. Plus no one really buys the 250x so there's non for sell used.
BobPA
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PA US
1/7/2018 8:44am
H4L wrote:
It's really up to the individual if they wan't to have a more affordable alternative on a 250 2T. There are options if the person is...
It's really up to the individual if they wan't to have a more affordable alternative on a 250 2T. There are options if the person is willing to invest a little time & money on a used 2000 + bike. The 17-18 KTM / Huskies aren't going to make you any faster. Below is a link of a guy racing on an 02 CR2 that is basically stock with a Dep pipe & suspension work.

He is racing a 15 yr. old bike against 17 KTM's at a high pro level. The rider was right there on the starts & finish line on the old iron. Keep in mind for the average Joe weekend warrior the same results could be had. I've experienced this myself at the local level & didn't feel at a disadvantage when I lined up against modern bikes.

https://youtu.be/A4eNJop_KC8?t=595
How is this even a comparison? So a guy keeps up to the news bikes on some old iron, how is the relevant? Did you do a direct comparison with him riding a newer two stroke? If he were on a newer, better motorcycle how do you know he would not have gapped anyone? A video of a fast guy keeping up with other fast guys proves nothing about a bike...
H4L
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CA US
1/7/2018 9:54am
BobPA wrote:
How is this even a comparison? So a guy keeps up to the news bikes on some old iron, how is the relevant? Did you do...
How is this even a comparison? So a guy keeps up to the news bikes on some old iron, how is the relevant? Did you do a direct comparison with him riding a newer two stroke? If he were on a newer, better motorcycle how do you know he would not have gapped anyone? A video of a fast guy keeping up with other fast guys proves nothing about a bike...
Did you read the title of the thread ? OP asked about "Old 2 strokes vs. New two strokes" so I responded to his question on his thread.
As far as him riding on a newer bike & would've gaped anyone, we can only speculate on that. The video is a fact & it shows a guy that hasn't raced for a while get on a 15 yr. old bike & compete against a current champ riding a new 2T. It's impressive considering it's at the higher pro level...
Grinder74
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Monroe, OH US
2/5/2019 7:16pm
If you really like the RM look for a RMX 250.
2
2/6/2019 7:20am
Rockinar wrote:
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike. Same thing in golf. Are the new...
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike.

Same thing in golf. Are the new clubs better than old clubs? Yes. Will they make you play better? No. If you can't hit the ball with old clubs you wont be able to his the ball with new clubs.
But if you hit the ball 100 yards into the woods with old clubs maybe you will hit it 125 yards into the woods with new clubs Smile
3
JAFO92
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BFE, TX US
2/6/2019 7:22am
Rockinar wrote:
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike. Same thing in golf. Are the new...
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike.

Same thing in golf. Are the new clubs better than old clubs? Yes. Will they make you play better? No. If you can't hit the ball with old clubs you wont be able to his the ball with new clubs.
Im saving this one. Excellent post and analogy.
JAFO92
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2/6/2019 7:28am
jeffro503 wrote:
I can't really give an opinion on the ability of the RM's on off road riding. For the track , I think they are still extremely...
I can't really give an opinion on the ability of the RM's on off road riding. For the track , I think they are still extremely competitive. Keep em' fresh , maintained and setup for you specifically , they can be a great moto weapon. Good luck on whatever you choose.
Someone say offroading? Early 2000s RM250s? *ahem*



And if not for a jammed thumb late season, he woulda won 2003 also.




2
mxr746
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Marietta, GA US
2/6/2019 7:44am
Rockinar wrote:
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike. Same thing in golf. Are the new...
Better? Yes? Will you be faster? No. If you're slow, you're slow. You will be slow on any bike.

Same thing in golf. Are the new clubs better than old clubs? Yes. Will they make you play better? No. If you can't hit the ball with old clubs you wont be able to his the ball with new clubs.
JAFO92 wrote:
Im saving this one. Excellent post and analogy.
Have you seen the new clubs? Anyone can hit the ball with a club head the size of a Prius.
1
JAFO92
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BFE, TX US
2/6/2019 7:54am
mxr746 wrote:
Have you seen the new clubs? Anyone can hit the ball with a club head the size of a Prius.
Yep, and Ive seen slow Vet riders on modded 450s who can drag race like a mofo on the straights, too. Then the truly fast kid on a 85 dinger blows around 'em on the following turn, checks out and laps 'em soon thereafter. Just like theres more to golf than distance off the tee-box. Guys with bonafide skills can still shoot scratch golf with a mashie, niblick and wood shaft putter and I couldnt break 100 with the best Ping clubs that money could buy.

I once played the links with a friend (former pro baseball player) and he bet me he could par a long par 5 with only a putter. He did it twice that day.
1
endurox
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Garden City, ID US
2/6/2019 7:59am
Vertigo Titanium fuel injected 2 stroke weighing in at 135 pounds. 20 pounds lighter than the bikes from the late 90's.

2
280driver
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VA US
2/6/2019 8:15am
No doubt better. I️ will say though that older bikes are not too far off. I️ rode a 1985 KX125 back in 2004 and was surprised that the KX was not that bad compared to my ‘04 YZ125. Like most things, it depends on what you’re looking for out of you bike. Anything in good condition is great if you’re just riding for fun.
1
edgo897
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Land O Lakes, FL US
2/6/2019 11:39am
Manbearpig wrote:
I had the same question as well. I have a 2006 RM250 that is setup awesome. RG3 kit suspension and a few bolt ons and I...
I had the same question as well. I have a 2006 RM250 that is setup awesome. RG3 kit suspension and a few bolt ons and I love it but I was looking for something more trail friendly so I just bought an 18 TX300. The suspension on my RM has a much better feel but I have only ran the out of the box settings for a tank of gas on the Husky so I need to set it up for my weight before I can give an honest opinion. That being said the motor and the chassis on the Husky and overall package is insanely good and am stoked on my decision to buy a ten thousand dollar 2 stroke. Haha. My TX im confident will be fantastic on the track and trails and will be selling my RM soon.
Put a flywheel weight on the RM and tighten the power valve spring. I did mine and it became a strong KDX. Its perfect for the woods.
Mx746
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Marietta, GA US
2/6/2019 2:13pm
mxr746 wrote:
Have you seen the new clubs? Anyone can hit the ball with a club head the size of a Prius.
JAFO92 wrote:
Yep, and Ive seen slow Vet riders on modded 450s who can drag race like a mofo on the straights, too. Then the truly fast kid...
Yep, and Ive seen slow Vet riders on modded 450s who can drag race like a mofo on the straights, too. Then the truly fast kid on a 85 dinger blows around 'em on the following turn, checks out and laps 'em soon thereafter. Just like theres more to golf than distance off the tee-box. Guys with bonafide skills can still shoot scratch golf with a mashie, niblick and wood shaft putter and I couldnt break 100 with the best Ping clubs that money could buy.

I once played the links with a friend (former pro baseball player) and he bet me he could par a long par 5 with only a putter. He did it twice that day.
Slow vets on 450’s getting beat by 85’s really don’t answer the op’s question of are current smokers that much better, than his old smoker. Tiger woods winning with a putter isnt an appropriate analogy. Tiger would likely win with an even better score with his new clubs. The op with his present skill set is the issue. Is he better off with his current skills on newer equipment or modded older equipment. Most riders will find at least a slight advantage to newer machine provided they gel with the ergos and power delivery. It’s up to the op in the end to weigh weather it’s enough to make the change from an old favorite. If it were me and chasing point and trophies weren’t overly important , I’d buy or keep the machine that belongs on the stand, the one that makes you want to go put laps in. ( even if it’s a lesser machine by most standards)
mikec265
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Edinboro, PA US
2/6/2019 3:02pm
I would buy Langhams, or Evans rm250s before a new KTM any day. Mainly because I am an AER48 hater and the new rebadged name for those forks doesn't have me convinced they are better than older A kit stuff.
Bermworm
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300
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9/3/2013
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CA
2/6/2019 5:11pm
My 2 cents off road is so much easier with Estart ,Large volume clear tank, Kickstand , 18 inch rear wheel, super soft suspension set up, Hand guards, and a bike that can idle for hours without a hiccup.All standard on every off road Ktm last ten plus years.P.S. Headlight comes in pretty handy too from time to time.No matter what the key is to just get out and ride as often as you can and of course have fun while doing it Cheers.
kage173
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TX US
2/6/2019 5:21pm
I went from a 07 CR250 to 2012 KTM 250SX. That's only 5 years and there's a difference.
Jrewing
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AU
2/6/2019 7:57pm
My cr125 handles better but the motor, gearbox, brakes clutch aren’t as good.
Metal is better quality

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