Practicing on smaller bikes - why don't they do it in mx/sx?

kage173
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kage173
I've noticed in road racing and flat track most pros practice on smaller bikes. Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez are often posting vid of them practicing on 450s. Colin Edwards and his crew are usually on TTRs. A lot of the flat track guys do 450s.

I can see the value in it. You really have to focus on fundamentals and technique. Anybody who rides a 125 will tell you that is the case. It also slows it down and makes it safer.

Do people do this in MX? I mean pros or otherwise? I never see it or hear about it. The difference between a Honda 213V and a CRF 450 seems much greater than a 450 to a 125. Why would it work for that discipline and not MX/SX?

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rmoto003
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rmoto003 8/15/2018 3:24pm
8/15/2018 3:24pm
is that the excuse you use for why you practice so much with your right hand?
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 8/15/2018 3:30pm
8/15/2018 3:30pm
It's the opposite in MX. A lot of the 250 guys often will practice on 450s. When you get used to the speeds that 450s are capable of on an MX track, going back down to a smaller/slower engine almost seems easier.
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psg119
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psg119 8/15/2018 3:34pm
8/15/2018 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/15/2018 3:35pm
It's just different. Those guys don't have the opportunity to ride their race bikes as much as you would think. And to build a 2-3 mile road coarse on their property would be a huge feat. So they build mini tracks to ride their "mini" bikes and motards to continue to work on their skill while there is no track time or ride motocross and flat track. The only time they get to ride those bikes (superbike series included) other than race weekend is when there are scheduled tests. In America a lot of the guys do track days and club races to get more time on their bikes as well. Moto guys get to ride their bikes practically whenever, wherever. So I think they do it because it's more available to them and they can work on corner speed still without having to go 200 mph.
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Idaho747
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Idaho747 8/15/2018 3:37pm
8/15/2018 3:37pm
When I was riding both 450 and 250 I would always feel faster on the 250 after riding the 450 for a while.
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kage173
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kage173 8/15/2018 3:43pm
8/15/2018 3:43pm
psg119 wrote:
It's just different. Those guys don't have the opportunity to ride their race bikes as much as you would think. And to build a 2-3 mile...
It's just different. Those guys don't have the opportunity to ride their race bikes as much as you would think. And to build a 2-3 mile road coarse on their property would be a huge feat. So they build mini tracks to ride their "mini" bikes and motards to continue to work on their skill while there is no track time or ride motocross and flat track. The only time they get to ride those bikes (superbike series included) other than race weekend is when there are scheduled tests. In America a lot of the guys do track days and club races to get more time on their bikes as well. Moto guys get to ride their bikes practically whenever, wherever. So I think they do it because it's more available to them and they can work on corner speed still without having to go 200 mph.
Yeah, I mean that's what I was thinking. But still, I've seen smaller road courses before and you would think a modded showroom 1,000 or even 600 would be relevant practice. You'd never get to top speed, but you'd have similar turning. But, maybe your right. Just seems like there is something to it in skill development, but maybe it is just ease of access.
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aeffertz 8/15/2018 3:51pm
8/15/2018 3:51pm
kage173 wrote:
Yeah, I mean that's what I was thinking. But still, I've seen smaller road courses before and you would think a modded showroom 1,000 or even...
Yeah, I mean that's what I was thinking. But still, I've seen smaller road courses before and you would think a modded showroom 1,000 or even 600 would be relevant practice. You'd never get to top speed, but you'd have similar turning. But, maybe your right. Just seems like there is something to it in skill development, but maybe it is just ease of access.
You are right about riding slower bikes will help with the fundamentals and technique. I think that's why it's great that kids race 2 strokes growing up because it teaches you the value in momentum and doesn't let you get sloppy or lazy without the engine bogging down. But these dudes already have that base so moving a 450 guy down to a 250 will only hinder them once they jump back on a bike nearly twice the size. They are pros after all.

An exaggerated example is like, you're used to driving 60 mph down the highway all day to work. Now the next day you need to hop in a sports car and drive it 100mph the entire time, through rush hour traffic. You will not feel comfortable at all because you've grown accustomed to the slower speed and therefore be slower than the guy who is speeding every day.
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psg119
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psg119 8/15/2018 3:55pm
8/15/2018 3:55pm
kage173 wrote:
Yeah, I mean that's what I was thinking. But still, I've seen smaller road courses before and you would think a modded showroom 1,000 or even...
Yeah, I mean that's what I was thinking. But still, I've seen smaller road courses before and you would think a modded showroom 1,000 or even 600 would be relevant practice. You'd never get to top speed, but you'd have similar turning. But, maybe your right. Just seems like there is something to it in skill development, but maybe it is just ease of access.
Well they do when they can on the main tracks here in America (I'm sure Europe too) but to put those bikes on the little tracks can be dangerous. Stop and go corners are a recipe for disaster with the torque on those bikes. High Side City. Which is what nearly every corner would be. My old friend Benny Solis was taking a stock CBR600RR to Willow cart track a couple times and I thought that was pretty unique. Haha. Josh Herrin was one of the first and still may be one of the only people besides Edwards to have a small asphalt track. A lot of the guys here go to train at his compound. And I know a few of the Motogp guys used to go to use Edwards. I think some of them have their own now too though. However they can get their leg over a bike! Haha. Seat time is seat time.
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psg119
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psg119 8/15/2018 3:57pm
8/15/2018 3:57pm
aeffertz wrote:
You are right about riding slower bikes will help with the fundamentals and technique. I think that's why it's great that kids race 2 strokes growing...
You are right about riding slower bikes will help with the fundamentals and technique. I think that's why it's great that kids race 2 strokes growing up because it teaches you the value in momentum and doesn't let you get sloppy or lazy without the engine bogging down. But these dudes already have that base so moving a 450 guy down to a 250 will only hinder them once they jump back on a bike nearly twice the size. They are pros after all.

An exaggerated example is like, you're used to driving 60 mph down the highway all day to work. Now the next day you need to hop in a sports car and drive it 100mph the entire time, through rush hour traffic. You will not feel comfortable at all because you've grown accustomed to the slower speed and therefore be slower than the guy who is speeding every day.
Yeah I agree. I think if the RR guys had the opportunity to practice on their big bikes all the time they would.
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fullysicmate 8/15/2018 4:00pm
8/15/2018 4:00pm
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its not working for him.
If almist any mxer flogged an xr100 around for an hour each day I guarantee they would be better riders for it.
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psg119
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psg119 8/15/2018 4:18pm
8/15/2018 4:18pm
fullysicmate wrote:
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its...
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its not working for him.
If almist any mxer flogged an xr100 around for an hour each day I guarantee they would be better riders for it.
Idk man. You could be right but I just don't see the benefits to a pro moto guy railing ruts on an xr100. Maybe for a guy trying to learn to hit ruts it'd be more beneficial. But I just don't see it transferring from little bike to big like it would on the road bikes. They already have that skill that they can practice daily on with the bikes they're racing with.
craigathan404 8/15/2018 4:30pm
8/15/2018 4:30pm
My main bike is a 250f but I have a klx110 that I bought for my chick and sometimes it’s more fun to ride that thing lol. You can just keep the throttle wide open the entire time.
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 8/15/2018 4:47pm
8/15/2018 4:47pm
I practiced on a 414 Montessa and that made my 125 CR Husky feel like a light weight turd.
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Stuntman949
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Stuntman949 8/15/2018 4:47pm
8/15/2018 4:47pm
psg119 wrote:
Idk man. You could be right but I just don't see the benefits to a pro moto guy railing ruts on an xr100. Maybe for a...
Idk man. You could be right but I just don't see the benefits to a pro moto guy railing ruts on an xr100. Maybe for a guy trying to learn to hit ruts it'd be more beneficial. But I just don't see it transferring from little bike to big like it would on the road bikes. They already have that skill that they can practice daily on with the bikes they're racing with.
This month I raced my KX500 and my XR100 on the same day. Only thing I learned was how to bend subframes.
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kb228
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kb228 8/15/2018 4:54pm
8/15/2018 4:54pm
Correct me if im wrong but motogp guys are limited on the amount of practice or something arent they? Or testing? Supermoto riding is their practice.
psg119
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psg119 8/15/2018 4:55pm
8/15/2018 4:55pm
Stuntman949 wrote:
This month I raced my KX500 and my XR100 on the same day. Only thing I learned was how to bend subframes.
Hahaha that's badass!!! Laughing Sounds like a great time was had!
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kage173
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kage173 8/16/2018 8:07am
8/16/2018 8:07am
psg119 wrote:
Well they do when they can on the main tracks here in America (I'm sure Europe too) but to put those bikes on the little tracks...
Well they do when they can on the main tracks here in America (I'm sure Europe too) but to put those bikes on the little tracks can be dangerous. Stop and go corners are a recipe for disaster with the torque on those bikes. High Side City. Which is what nearly every corner would be. My old friend Benny Solis was taking a stock CBR600RR to Willow cart track a couple times and I thought that was pretty unique. Haha. Josh Herrin was one of the first and still may be one of the only people besides Edwards to have a small asphalt track. A lot of the guys here go to train at his compound. And I know a few of the Motogp guys used to go to use Edwards. I think some of them have their own now too though. However they can get their leg over a bike! Haha. Seat time is seat time.
Cool man thanks. It sounds like you know what you're talking about. I watch road racing, but not involved in it so wouldn't have that kind of perspective. I always assumed it was a skill thing and wondered if it could be used in moto, but what you say makes sense. Laying down a big asphalt track costs a lot more than dozing some dirt.

*Side note: Josh Herrin is a savage.
kage173
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kage173 8/16/2018 8:09am
8/16/2018 8:09am
craigathan404 wrote:
My main bike is a 250f but I have a klx110 that I bought for my chick and sometimes it’s more fun to ride that thing...
My main bike is a 250f but I have a klx110 that I bought for my chick and sometimes it’s more fun to ride that thing lol. You can just keep the throttle wide open the entire time.
I bought my daughter a KX 100 and she never rode it, so I started ripping that little fire breathing dragon and it's fun as hell. It also, in my opinion, helps a ton with my turning technique.

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psg119
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psg119 8/16/2018 9:26am
8/16/2018 9:26am
kage173 wrote:
Cool man thanks. It sounds like you know what you're talking about. I watch road racing, but not involved in it so wouldn't have that kind...
Cool man thanks. It sounds like you know what you're talking about. I watch road racing, but not involved in it so wouldn't have that kind of perspective. I always assumed it was a skill thing and wondered if it could be used in moto, but what you say makes sense. Laying down a big asphalt track costs a lot more than dozing some dirt.

*Side note: Josh Herrin is a savage.
Of course dude! No, I think you’re totally right on that it’s helping perfect and hone their skill. They just do it with whatever means possible! Haha. Shoot we would get in trouble at Miller nearly every night after practice and race days because we would make one of the garages and indoor short track and have unorganized flat track races on our pit scooters haha. Shut the doors down, set up some trash cans to race around and slam into each other lap after lap till we got yelled at by track staff hahaha. Such a blast. That was my favorite track to go to. I was in the sport till 2010 so it’s been a while. I was quite jealous when Josh and his family moved back east and created that compound when we were youngerLaughing I always thought it was kind of a shame that we didn’t get to ride local tracks whenever we wanted like Moto guys do. But then again the amount of tires we would go through could break anyone’s bank hahaha

Yeah he’s got some major talent on a motorcycle, no doubt! That’s awesome you watch road racing. The sport needs more fans like you here in America!
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Jeremy Macbeth 8/16/2018 10:40am
8/16/2018 10:40am Edited Date/Time 8/16/2018 10:41am
Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez do not practice MotoGP on smaller displacement bikes. They practice on the same bikes they race. However, they cross-train on different bikes and in different disciplines to hone complimentary skills to road racing, or to simply have fun.

Motocross professionals cross-train on bicycles, which are arguably much slower than their factory race bikes.
make1go
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make1go 8/16/2018 1:25pm
8/16/2018 1:25pm
fullysicmate wrote:
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its...
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its not working for him.
If almist any mxer flogged an xr100 around for an hour each day I guarantee they would be better riders for it.
no not at all, i use a klx 150, (set for offrd ohlinss, racetech) as my commutor and go anywhere bike and other than being able to drag it when stuck. its not making me better....
fullysicmate 8/16/2018 1:33pm
8/16/2018 1:33pm
fullysicmate wrote:
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its...
There is current motogp guys regularly practicing on small 4 strokes. Marc Marquez practices sliding on crf150f, then goes and races at 300kph. Can't say its not working for him.
If almist any mxer flogged an xr100 around for an hour each day I guarantee they would be better riders for it.
make1go wrote:
no not at all, i use a klx 150, (set for offrd ohlinss, racetech) as my commutor and go anywhere bike and other than being able...
no not at all, i use a klx 150, (set for offrd ohlinss, racetech) as my commutor and go anywhere bike and other than being able to drag it when stuck. its not making me better....
Do slow wheelies around the back yard on it for an hour each day and see if that helps your clutch control on the big bike, helped me a ton. Pick 2 trees and do flat out flat track style laps on it every other day and see if that helps your cornering.....If nothing else it puts a huge smile on my face, but i'm sure it helps me on the full size bike when its not practical to load up and take it to a track, or you just don't feel like getting fully kitted up to ride.
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kage173
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kage173 8/16/2018 1:40pm
8/16/2018 1:40pm
Jeremy Macbeth wrote:
Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez do not practice MotoGP on smaller displacement bikes. They practice on the same bikes they race. However, they cross-train on different...
Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez do not practice MotoGP on smaller displacement bikes. They practice on the same bikes they race. However, they cross-train on different bikes and in different disciplines to hone complimentary skills to road racing, or to simply have fun.

Motocross professionals cross-train on bicycles, which are arguably much slower than their factory race bikes.
Have you ever seen Rossi's "Moto-ranch"? It is not for cross-training, it's what he uses to practice. Plain and simple.

A few moto pros will ride some BMX, but not much and you don't see them posting it every day the way you see the MotoGP guys posting on their 450s. And all the road biking is not moto practice, it's physical training which is totally different.
craigathan404 8/16/2018 1:51pm
8/16/2018 1:51pm
craigathan404 wrote:
My main bike is a 250f but I have a klx110 that I bought for my chick and sometimes it’s more fun to ride that thing...
My main bike is a 250f but I have a klx110 that I bought for my chick and sometimes it’s more fun to ride that thing lol. You can just keep the throttle wide open the entire time.
kage173 wrote:
I bought my daughter a KX 100 and she never rode it, so I started ripping that little fire breathing dragon and it's fun as hell...
I bought my daughter a KX 100 and she never rode it, so I started ripping that little fire breathing dragon and it's fun as hell. It also, in my opinion, helps a ton with my turning technique.
I would definitely agree. It has certainly helped with my ability to brake later and not be afraid to try and rail turns. The only sketchy thing is I dab my legs way too much on the little bike haha.
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