Savatgy/Kawi

bvm111
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bvm111 8/28/2018 7:52pm
8/28/2018 7:52pm
I will admit I have never been a fan of his, but I’m willing to see how he does before I crucify the guy. He has always been a hard worker and might surprise some of us next season!
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/28/2018 7:56pm
8/28/2018 7:56pm
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
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Tarz483
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Tarz483 8/28/2018 8:01pm
8/28/2018 8:01pm
In Happy to see that He got the spot
Imo He earned it, yeah he didnt win a 250 championship
But he came extremely close and there can only be 1 championship per yr.
Imo he is a really humble guy , and a hard worker
I am A big fan and I could see him in the Top 5
And for sure right there battling with the other 450 rookies coming in this year.
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devindavisphoto
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devindavisphoto 8/28/2018 8:01pm
8/28/2018 8:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2018 8:04pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
I'm not sure if these riders are people you think would have been a better option or you just think are quicker than Savatgy, nonetheless here we go...

Tomac - Obviously Tomac is faster, but he's also his teammate.
Musquin - Signed with KTM
Anderson - Signed with Husqvarna
Barcia - Signed with Yamaha
Roczen - Signed with Honda
Brayton - Signed with Motoconcepts
Wilson - Savatgy is relatively healthy more often than not, so I think it was smart to choose him over Wilson who's been riddled with injuries, unfortunately.
Webb - Signed with KTM (supposedly)
Plessinger - Signed with Yamaha
Osborne - Signed with Husqvarna
Peick - Signed with Suzuki
Bogle - I'd put Savatgy ahead of Bogle
Baggett - Signed with Rocky Mountain
Seely - Signed with Honda
Reed - Signed with Suzuki (rumored)
Friese - You honestly think Freise is better than Savatgy? Wow...
Bloss - Signed with Rocky Mountain (I'd still put Savatgy ahead of him)
Hill - Signed with Suzuki
Nicoletti - Racing the Canadian nationals in 2019

Go ahead you silent haters, dislike this post while keeping your opinion to yourself. These likes/dislike options only further people keeping their opinions to themselves but never agreeing with anyone else.
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devindavisphoto
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devindavisphoto 8/28/2018 8:06pm
8/28/2018 8:06pm
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I think Savatgy has the potential to beat Wilson, AP, Osborne, Seely, Hill, etc on the 450. He rides with a very smooth and fluent riding style, and could definitely surprise people on the more powerful machine.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 8/28/2018 8:22pm
8/28/2018 8:22pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
So who do you hire? Monster says you have to hire someone, and you are running a business. Who do you hire from that list that is available and within your 2nd slot budget?
devindavisphoto
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devindavisphoto 8/28/2018 9:09pm
8/28/2018 9:09pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
So who do you hire? Monster says you have to hire someone, and you are running a business. Who do you hire from that list that...
So who do you hire? Monster says you have to hire someone, and you are running a business. Who do you hire from that list that is available and within your 2nd slot budget?
Savatgy.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/28/2018 9:17pm
8/28/2018 9:17pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I...
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I think Savatgy has the potential to beat Wilson, AP, Osborne, Seely, Hill, etc on the 450. He rides with a very smooth and fluent riding style, and could definitely surprise people on the more powerful machine.
So you’re saying Savatgy top ten? I would take that bet any day of the week.
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LungButter
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LungButter 8/28/2018 9:27pm
8/28/2018 9:27pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
So who do you hire? Monster says you have to hire someone, and you are running a business. Who do you hire from that list that...
So who do you hire? Monster says you have to hire someone, and you are running a business. Who do you hire from that list that is available and within your 2nd slot budget?
Nicoletti, you know the guy with a ton of experience, big fan base and who just got done leading laps in the 450 class, getting a Podium and finished 6th overall in the series.

He'd do a better job, bring more press/exposure and probably be happy to do it for $100k less.
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haydos25
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haydos25 8/28/2018 9:50pm
8/28/2018 9:50pm
LungButter wrote:
Nicoletti, you know the guy with a ton of experience, big fan base and who just got done leading laps in the 450 class, getting a...
Nicoletti, you know the guy with a ton of experience, big fan base and who just got done leading laps in the 450 class, getting a Podium and finished 6th overall in the series.

He'd do a better job, bring more press/exposure and probably be happy to do it for $100k less.
In supercross?

Savatgy has won Supercross races, lots of them. He's been a title contender in the lites class indoors and out. Phil doesn't have that resume. Phil is an outdoor beast and puts himself in contention at the tail end of every outdoor season, but he's not a supercross guy. Unfortunately for him 2/3's of the season is indoors and Savatgy laps him indoors.
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FI2T
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FI2T 8/28/2018 9:59pm
8/28/2018 9:59pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I...
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I think Savatgy has the potential to beat Wilson, AP, Osborne, Seely, Hill, etc on the 450. He rides with a very smooth and fluent riding style, and could definitely surprise people on the more powerful machine.
Ap crushed him in sx and mx and a healthy Osbourne owns Savatgy. Seely and Hill he might be able to beat in mx but I think it's less likely in sx.
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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 8/28/2018 10:34pm
8/28/2018 10:34pm
its so annoying hearing people say it should of been AC92 ride...
AC wants and will be staying on the 250 till 2020. its been confirmed, paper work and contract complete its happening.

Savatgy rode well in the 250 class.. he was consistent and won more then just a few races.

He deserves the 450 ride over a lot of people.
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Juss72
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Juss72 8/28/2018 11:24pm
8/28/2018 11:24pm
Trudare69 wrote:
I honestly think the 17 on a 450 will surprise the doubters......
Na his a 7-10th place guy. Hill got screwed
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Juss72
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Juss72 8/28/2018 11:26pm
8/28/2018 11:26pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
its so annoying hearing people say it should of been AC92 ride... AC wants and will be staying on the 250 till 2020. its been confirmed...
its so annoying hearing people say it should of been AC92 ride...
AC wants and will be staying on the 250 till 2020. its been confirmed, paper work and contract complete its happening.

Savatgy rode well in the 250 class.. he was consistent and won more then just a few races.

He deserves the 450 ride over a lot of people.
Did we watch the same races in 2018?
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Buckland
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Buckland 8/29/2018 6:04am
8/29/2018 6:04am
Buckland wrote:
Mookie. Give him a one year deal with a full off-season of factory resources and an opportunity to ride both SX and MX. He'd have his...
Mookie. Give him a one year deal with a full off-season of factory resources and an opportunity to ride both SX and MX. He'd have his chance to prove the doubters wrong (or right), without excuse.

If you're Kawi you already have the champion contender, why not get a fan favorite who at worst case provides moments of pure excitement and at best becomes a contender with a real program. Instead you get a guy who will likely get comparable results, and brings no off track excitement.

By all accounts the '19 Kawi is a good bike. If Mookie's asking price is too high or he rejects a one year, or non SX-only deal that's on him.

Squirrelings wrote:
So Savatgy is no good, but you want Mookie? You should look up some stats. I would be shocked if Malcolm beats Savatgy in points next...
So Savatgy is no good, but you want Mookie? You should look up some stats. I would be shocked if Malcolm beats Savatgy in points next season.
Personally, yes. For a one year rent a rider I'd rather see Mookie on that bike. The last time he had a solid program, he earned a #1 plate. I do agree with the narrative that left to his own devices he is not capable/willing to put together his own deal to compete against the factories, but who is?

What do guys want from their number two rider? 8th in points, or someone who can win heat races and blast past three riders at a time through the whoops? I'll take the excitement every time, but that's just me...

Note: I do believe family history and Mookie being unprepared in previous seasons was the deciding factor.
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Crush
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Crush 8/29/2018 6:09am
8/29/2018 6:09am
He's pretty smooth and carries good mid-corner speed so i'd imagine he'll do well... But all those mistakes, hope they don't end up costing him with the bigger bike. I'd guess pressure is on, one-year deal all but says AC is coming, make it work.
kb228
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kb228 8/29/2018 6:11am
8/29/2018 6:11am
If joey does well, do they add a 3rd bike for AC? I really cannot see AC leaving kawasaki or kawasaki letting him leave.

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three9zero
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three9zero 8/29/2018 10:05am
8/29/2018 10:05am
I don't get it, more than a few championship winners(Wilson, MStewart) with no ride and they sign him, who is unproven on the bike bike, also a tiny dude, which from time to time means BIG crashes and injuries(Will Hahn comes to mind)
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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 8/29/2018 10:23am
8/29/2018 10:23am
early wrote:
Who would you get?
kb228 wrote:
Move AC up early lol
ML512 wrote:
AC wasn’t an option...
This is Joey's chance to shut up the masses. He's shown us all his potential and this may be his last shot at a great factory ride, if all circumstances were different I'm sure there'd be a different guy on this bike. But there isn't so I hope he can get his confidence back and becomes a good 450 guy.
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shuggs
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shuggs 8/29/2018 10:35am
8/29/2018 10:35am
Mmm never been a fan BUT wtf, he has earned it. True he has had a shitty year (along with a few others) but it’s not long ago Zacho had to take him (all fine with me) out to win SX. Maybe even time to rethink working with RC/ Jeannie???
If I was a factory manager no way would I let Mookie anywhere near a team, Christ go out and earn the ride like Barcia this year and Deano last year.
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 8/29/2018 10:39am
8/29/2018 10:39am
three9zero wrote:
I don't get it, more than a few championship winners(Wilson, MStewart) with no ride and they sign him, who is unproven on the bike bike, also...
I don't get it, more than a few championship winners(Wilson, MStewart) with no ride and they sign him, who is unproven on the bike bike, also a tiny dude, which from time to time means BIG crashes and injuries(Will Hahn comes to mind)
Again, Mookie has shown little desire to actually warrant a factory ride. He's come in under-prepared in both 2017 and 2018, and even as the season has progressed he hasn't really got better results or looked to be in better fitness. And he really has no desire to race the outdoors, that seems pretty obvious. His title in 2016 is a ways in the rear view mirror, and let's be honest, he only had to get it together for a nine race series to win it.

Deano, obviously a super talented guy, but since his 250 title in 2011 his career has been an injury disaster. I'd easily take Joey who has been relatively healthy in his last 4 years of 250 as my 2nd guy on a factory team. He probably comes cheaper than Dean and has a better chance of staying healthy. And let's be honest, given the history with Wilson and Tomac in the past, it is doubtful that Dean would end up as his teammate. But hey, if Webb and Musquin can be teammates anything is possible.

I don't get all the hate for Joey. He had a rough season in 2018 compared to his 2015/16/17 seasons, but he has been one of the best 250 riders in that time period. As bad as his 250 outdoors was this year, his teammate Forkner was equally bad but if he moved up to a factory 450 everyone would be in love with him. Overall 2018 outdoors was a disaster for PC Kawi. I think Joey has an image problem, he comes off very unhappy in interviews. I don't think the Goat Farm is a very fun place to be, and while it worked well for him initially he needs a change in workplace to maybe get out of his funk.

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Squirrelings 8/29/2018 11:11am
8/29/2018 11:11am
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
LaughingLaughingLaughing I'm not going to go through this list one at a time, but you are delusional if you think all those guys are as good as Savatgy. Maybe you haven't noticed, but the 250 class is stacked because of the ridiculous point out rules. These 250 guys are better than you seem to think.
Squirrelings 8/29/2018 11:19am
8/29/2018 11:19am
Buckland wrote:
Personally, yes. For a one year rent a rider I'd rather see Mookie on that bike. The last time he had a solid program, he earned...
Personally, yes. For a one year rent a rider I'd rather see Mookie on that bike. The last time he had a solid program, he earned a #1 plate. I do agree with the narrative that left to his own devices he is not capable/willing to put together his own deal to compete against the factories, but who is?

What do guys want from their number two rider? 8th in points, or someone who can win heat races and blast past three riders at a time through the whoops? I'll take the excitement every time, but that's just me...

Note: I do believe family history and Mookie being unprepared in previous seasons was the deciding factor.
I have nothing against Mookie and actually can't stand all of his shit talkers, but let's be real here. Savatgy is a dedicated racer. This is his job and he takes it seriously. He won more races than Mookie, inside and out. He's more fit, more focused, and more deserving. He will also beat Mookie indoors and outdoors on a 450 (That's right, Joey races motocross, just like Factory Kawi. Something Mookie appears to have no interest in). Kawasaki isn't dumb enough to give the ride to a less deserving racer that isn't associated with them in any way. Great choice Kawi!
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FlaNard
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FlaNard 8/29/2018 12:04pm
8/29/2018 12:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 12:07pm
The 450 class needs a guy to pull great starts who then makes unforced errors and crashes all by himself while out front. I believe Joey can be that guy. On a serious note, I actually like him as a second rider. Sure there are talented guys you can argue for it but he is a very good Supercross rider which is what pays the bills. If he can minimize the mental lapses I think he has the speed to top 5 MAYBE even podium on the right night in Supercross. Joey can start well and that is about 90% of Supercross these days.
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early
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early 8/29/2018 12:23pm
8/29/2018 12:23pm
Who was the last big rider to move up without a 250 champinship? Seely in 2015?
TXDirt
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TXDirt 8/29/2018 1:01pm
8/29/2018 1:01pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
He's got more upside then....

Wilson
Peick
Bogle
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think Friese and Bloss have more upside then Savatgy at the moment. Yeah sure maybe Joey has a terrible year and flames out. But we don't know that yet and there is a possibility he gels with the 450 and is competitive.

The 250 class is stacked much more then 450's and Joey has been competitive there. I'm just glad he along with Plessenger are moving up to the 450 class because the "premiere" class needs more quality talent. Bloss wouldn't even sniff the top ten at a race if it weren't for injuries and lack of 250 riders ever moving up. I know if if..... but you get the point.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/29/2018 2:42pm
8/29/2018 2:42pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
TXDirt wrote:
He's got more upside then.... Wilson Peick Bogle Seely Reed Friese Bloss Hill Nicoletti Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think...
He's got more upside then....

Wilson
Peick
Bogle
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think Friese and Bloss have more upside then Savatgy at the moment. Yeah sure maybe Joey has a terrible year and flames out. But we don't know that yet and there is a possibility he gels with the 450 and is competitive.

The 250 class is stacked much more then 450's and Joey has been competitive there. I'm just glad he along with Plessenger are moving up to the 450 class because the "premiere" class needs more quality talent. Bloss wouldn't even sniff the top ten at a race if it weren't for injuries and lack of 250 riders ever moving up. I know if if..... but you get the point.
Where do you think Savatgy will finish in next year’s SX standings and who of those riders I mentioned do you think will place below him?
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bmulry43
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bmulry43 8/29/2018 2:44pm
8/29/2018 2:44pm
I don’t understand how 3 or 4 years on a 250 with 0 championships and finishing this mx season with 9th OA gets you a factory 450 ride
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Frank Tuesday 8/29/2018 3:13pm
8/29/2018 3:13pm
bmulry43 wrote:
I don’t understand how 3 or 4 years on a 250 with 0 championships and finishing this mx season with 9th OA gets you a factory...
I don’t understand how 3 or 4 years on a 250 with 0 championships and finishing this mx season with 9th OA gets you a factory 450 ride
6 years. Look at it from Kawi's perspective. They want good riders in 250. Promoting from your 250 program into the factory 450 team makes your 250 program more appealling. It tells riders if they stick with green, they can get a shot. Versace hasn't lit up the track this year, but he's got potential and talent. He could be a top-5 450 rider. And now he's got a shot.

If they give the ride to Mookie or Filthy, the incentive for AC or AF to stick with Kawi goes down. If Yamaha is winning titles and promoting to factory 450, the best riders will want to be on Yamaha.

This is a great lineup for Kawi. They have a title contender for MX and SX in Tomac, and signing Savatgy keeps their stream of junior riders happy to stick with green.
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