Savatgy/Kawi

Johnny Ringo
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8/29/2018 3:36pm
bmulry43 wrote:
I don’t understand how 3 or 4 years on a 250 with 0 championships and finishing this mx season with 9th OA gets you a factory...
I don’t understand how 3 or 4 years on a 250 with 0 championships and finishing this mx season with 9th OA gets you a factory 450 ride
So, out of the riders available and with your 2nd slot budget, who do you hire? Before you say “keep grant”, keep in mind, he didn’t have any 250 championships, either.
2
Kyle_McNab
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8/29/2018 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 4:08pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
TXDirt wrote:
He's got more upside then.... Wilson Peick Bogle Seely Reed Friese Bloss Hill Nicoletti Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think...
He's got more upside then....

Wilson
Peick
Bogle
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think Friese and Bloss have more upside then Savatgy at the moment. Yeah sure maybe Joey has a terrible year and flames out. But we don't know that yet and there is a possibility he gels with the 450 and is competitive.

The 250 class is stacked much more then 450's and Joey has been competitive there. I'm just glad he along with Plessenger are moving up to the 450 class because the "premiere" class needs more quality talent. Bloss wouldn't even sniff the top ten at a race if it weren't for injuries and lack of 250 riders ever moving up. I know if if..... but you get the point.
That’ dude is annoying as shit. I’m not a Savatgy fanboy but come on. Better 250 career than Seely. Seely has been pretty successful winning sx races.
TXDirt
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8/29/2018 4:22pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available...
Riders off the top of my head that I believe are better than Savatgy. Of course some are obvious and some are debatable. Some were available and some weren't.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen
Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Some of those are SX only so I will concede that and as I said some of those are debatable. The previous list is just my opinion. But the fact that that many people are on that list and the overwhelming majority of those aren't debatable is not enough for me to think he deserves a top factory ride. 9th in MX in a minor league class without missing any races? There's something to be said for making it though the series healthy, but you can also think about what would have happened if Osborne and Martin didn't have freak injuries. That would be 11th. The guy is better than most people in the world and is better than 99% of all riders to ever compete professionally. But does he deserve a factory Kawi ride? No. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though and we will see how it goes.
TXDirt wrote:
He's got more upside then.... Wilson Peick Bogle Seely Reed Friese Bloss Hill Nicoletti Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think...
He's got more upside then....

Wilson
Peick
Bogle
Seely
Reed
Friese
Bloss
Hill
Nicoletti

Come on. You are just being a hater if you actually think Friese and Bloss have more upside then Savatgy at the moment. Yeah sure maybe Joey has a terrible year and flames out. But we don't know that yet and there is a possibility he gels with the 450 and is competitive.

The 250 class is stacked much more then 450's and Joey has been competitive there. I'm just glad he along with Plessenger are moving up to the 450 class because the "premiere" class needs more quality talent. Bloss wouldn't even sniff the top ten at a race if it weren't for injuries and lack of 250 riders ever moving up. I know if if..... but you get the point.
TDeath21 wrote:
Where do you think Savatgy will finish in next year’s SX standings and who of those riders I mentioned do you think will place below him?
Lets look at this rationally.

Here is who he won't beat, unless the stars align.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen

Fair enough.

Let's look at who is in the second tier who he can race with on a good night. Keep in mind Osbourne and Plessinger are rookies too and so is Hill for the most part. Look at how well Hill did in a few races.

Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Hill

Here is probably his peer group.

Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely

I think he will consistently be ahead of:

Reed (always a wild card)
Friese
Bloss
Nicoletti

If he can stay injury free he can definitely get a top 10 overall in points. He's a decent starter. He may sneak into the top 5 on a good night.

I don't know how he will end up. But based on the potential upside and available riders he has earned a spot as a second rider.

Look at how awesome Davalos did when he rode the 450 outdoors.

Sometimes you just never know.....

He's earned it. Let's see what he can do with it now. It's just hatin from you to say you want Reed, Friese, Bloss, Nicoletti ahead of Joey on your team.

You would be fired as a Team Manager immediately. Angry
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RichieW13
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8/29/2018 4:26pm
TXDirt wrote:
Lets look at this rationally. Here is who he won't beat, unless the stars align. Tomac Musquin Anderson Barcia Roczen Fair enough. Let's look at who...
Lets look at this rationally.

Here is who he won't beat, unless the stars align.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen

Fair enough.

Let's look at who is in the second tier who he can race with on a good night. Keep in mind Osbourne and Plessinger are rookies too and so is Hill for the most part. Look at how well Hill did in a few races.

Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Hill

Here is probably his peer group.

Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely

I think he will consistently be ahead of:

Reed (always a wild card)
Friese
Bloss
Nicoletti

If he can stay injury free he can definitely get a top 10 overall in points. He's a decent starter. He may sneak into the top 5 on a good night.

I don't know how he will end up. But based on the potential upside and available riders he has earned a spot as a second rider.

Look at how awesome Davalos did when he rode the 450 outdoors.

Sometimes you just never know.....

He's earned it. Let's see what he can do with it now. It's just hatin from you to say you want Reed, Friese, Bloss, Nicoletti ahead of Joey on your team.

You would be fired as a Team Manager immediately. Angry
FWIW, Seely beat Brayton straight up in 6 of the 7 races that Seely raced before getting hurt. We'll see if the injury sets him back, but he should at least be in the same group as Brayton.

The Shop

TXDirt
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8/29/2018 4:37pm
TXDirt wrote:
Lets look at this rationally. Here is who he won't beat, unless the stars align. Tomac Musquin Anderson Barcia Roczen Fair enough. Let's look at who...
Lets look at this rationally.

Here is who he won't beat, unless the stars align.

Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Barcia
Roczen

Fair enough.

Let's look at who is in the second tier who he can race with on a good night. Keep in mind Osbourne and Plessinger are rookies too and so is Hill for the most part. Look at how well Hill did in a few races.

Brayton
Wilson
Webb
Plessinger
Osborne
Hill

Here is probably his peer group.

Peick
Bogle
Baggett
Seely

I think he will consistently be ahead of:

Reed (always a wild card)
Friese
Bloss
Nicoletti

If he can stay injury free he can definitely get a top 10 overall in points. He's a decent starter. He may sneak into the top 5 on a good night.

I don't know how he will end up. But based on the potential upside and available riders he has earned a spot as a second rider.

Look at how awesome Davalos did when he rode the 450 outdoors.

Sometimes you just never know.....

He's earned it. Let's see what he can do with it now. It's just hatin from you to say you want Reed, Friese, Bloss, Nicoletti ahead of Joey on your team.

You would be fired as a Team Manager immediately. Angry
RichieW13 wrote:
FWIW, Seely beat Brayton straight up in 6 of the 7 races that Seely raced before getting hurt. We'll see if the injury sets him back...
FWIW, Seely beat Brayton straight up in 6 of the 7 races that Seely raced before getting hurt. We'll see if the injury sets him back, but he should at least be in the same group as Brayton.
Because of the injury I moved him back. But honestly you could throw a blanket over both those groups. Top 5 are clearly ahead. but 6-15 is wide open.

Something to think about is that likely one from the 6-15 group is going to possibly replace one from the 1-5 group. So who will it be and who gets replaced this coming season??? Injuries play a big part in all this.....
Dcross829
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8/29/2018 4:38pm
I’m not the biggest fan of Savatgy but he has the potential to do big things on the 450. I think the managers at kawi know what there doing.
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1
devindavisphoto
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10/14/2018 10:13pm
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I...
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I think Savatgy has the potential to beat Wilson, AP, Osborne, Seely, Hill, etc on the 450. He rides with a very smooth and fluent riding style, and could definitely surprise people on the more powerful machine.
Whistling We'll see, a lot of you guys are on the bandwagon after last night.
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FroDiddy
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10/15/2018 5:35am
So many knowledgeable fans in here. Whistling
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Stoneface
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10/15/2018 8:25pm
Savatgy has a grade A skill set. He's won a bunch of SX and MX 250 races in a tough, scrapping class of riders. Guys like the Martins, Forkner, and A.C. Struggle at times in that class.
I'm betting that he is the surprise of 2019. He's built for that KX450 and he's Eli's teammate. I bet he is top rookie at the end of the SX season, and I bet he finishes ahead of Webb.
1
10/15/2018 8:33pm
I thought about this thread as he was killing it Saturday night. So many experts. Joey rode great on the 450, as expected.
2
Shawn142
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10/15/2018 9:05pm
Joey has 5 wins and 14 podiums in SX alone. Add in outdoors 12 wins and 22 podiums over a pretty short career so far. How is that not worth a shot at a factory ride? Compare that to anyone who currently doesn't have one. He deserves the chance.
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Crush
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10/15/2018 9:35pm
I thought about this thread as he was killing it Saturday night. So many experts. Joey rode great on the 450, as expected.
Well, let's not get too far ahead... It's a night of no-pressure racing, on a hard to pass, start dominant, non-typical track... and there is a long list of dudes who move up and do well straight away. He's going to need to continue to do pretty well to keep that ride for sure.
1
10/16/2018 7:53am
Crush wrote:
Well, let's not get too far ahead... It's a night of no-pressure racing, on a hard to pass, start dominant, non-typical track... and there is a...
Well, let's not get too far ahead... It's a night of no-pressure racing, on a hard to pass, start dominant, non-typical track... and there is a long list of dudes who move up and do well straight away. He's going to need to continue to do pretty well to keep that ride for sure.
I agree, but wasn't commenting on him keeping his ride next year. That will be tough. He did prove 75% of the people in this thread wrong with that single ride, however, which was my point. He was consistently good all night and will be 5-10 consistently in Supercross. That's a success IMO.
Crush
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10/16/2018 8:04am
I agree, but wasn't commenting on him keeping his ride next year. That will be tough. He did prove 75% of the people in this thread...
I agree, but wasn't commenting on him keeping his ride next year. That will be tough. He did prove 75% of the people in this thread wrong with that single ride, however, which was my point. He was consistently good all night and will be 5-10 consistently in Supercross. That's a success IMO.
He rode great no doubt, but I can't put much stock in this race... it's pretty weird.

Weird track, weird timing after MXdN and off-season, weird format, weird effort levels from the entrants...

He could do great for sure, as he rides super smooth, but he has also just washed the front end a lot. Be interesting to see how the year plays out, he's got massive pressure to keep it up.
Johnny Ringo
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10/16/2018 9:34am
Where's TDeath? I'd love to hear his thoughts on JS's ride this weekend.
TDeath21
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10/16/2018 9:45am
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I...
On that list the only people I think quicker than Savatgy on a weekly basis are Tomac, Musquin, Anderson, Barcia, Roczen, Brayton, and maybe Webb. I think Savatgy has the potential to beat Wilson, AP, Osborne, Seely, Hill, etc on the 450. He rides with a very smooth and fluent riding style, and could definitely surprise people on the more powerful machine.
Whistling We'll see, a lot of you guys are on the bandwagon after last night.
Nothing screams insecurity like digging up a two month old thread to make people see that, in one race, you might have been right.
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10/16/2018 9:46am
TDeath21 wrote:
Nothing screams insecurity like digging up a two month old thread to make people see that, in one race, you might have been right.
One race means everything. Weren't you on here after MXdN?
1
TDeath21
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10/16/2018 9:56am
Where's TDeath? I'd love to hear his thoughts on JS's ride this weekend.
Ah I got called out by name!

My thoughts are he rode amazing. Much better than I expected.

Plessinger was out. Osborne was out. Roczen was out. Musquin had some weird stuff happen to him. Brayton was out. Seely was out. Wilson was out. Peick was out.

It was a weird format race with no whoops in which the races were only 10 laps. On average, 6 less than he’s used to and 13 less than he will be running this season. Plus, let’s not forget, he’s doing 17 rounds.

If you’d like to go ahead and crown him as a top rider after Saturday then by all means go do it. I will stick with my prediction of a 15thish place guy who goes to the LCQ a few times this year. Which is amazing for most people in the world. Just not for a rider with a top tier factory ride.

If I’m wrong then I will admit it during the season. Maybe he rides the 450 a lot better. We will see. Webb had his number though and we see how he’s doing. So did Osborne and Plessinger and they’re moving up this year too.
toomanykaws
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Henderson, NV US
10/16/2018 2:04pm
Kawi has spent lots time and money on him as a 250 rider. Nothing wrong with having him on the 450. Easier transition than a rider from a different brand. Be interesting what happens when AC moves up.
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