Seelys comments on Euro speed

ruy wrote:

[embed] https://youtu.be/Bf2wOsmhHKA?start=580 [/embed] I think it has been very important these last years, where the 65, 85, 125 and 250 from EMX have been competing the...

I think it has been very important these last years, where the 65, 85, 125 and 250 from EMX have been competing the same days and same circuits as the riders of MXGP and MX2.

Flip109 wrote:

Find me someone who said that? People always post this same line, but nobody that ever said that is to be found? Is “they” a real...

Find me someone who said that? People always post this same line, but nobody that ever said that is to be found? Is “they” a real person?? Or is this some made up explanation from GP fans back in the day why Americans were so much better? Somewhere someone came up with that theory and now all of a sudden it applies to all of us??? Sorry mr fancy pants, wasn’t me or anyone on here. The GP riding style evolved. Thats why they were finally on par and now surpassing ama riders with their outdoor specialty skills.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Well I didn't have to look far- there's two people right here in this thread alone..[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/10/06/218523/s1200_IMG_8274.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/10/06/218524/s1200_IMG_8275.jpg[/img]

Well I didn't have to look far- there's two people right here in this thread alone..

Flip109 wrote:

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My...

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My rant was basically because i get so tired of hearing the same stupid line everytime a thread about this comes up. Somewhere 20 years ago or something somebody came up with this theory, and prob wrote it in a magazine article or some shit. Then people took it and ran with it I guess. Obviously not everyone feels that is the case. Most people feel our sx specialty is hurting our guys when we face GP riders in tough conditions esp on their playing turf. Our guys can no longer ride around on half baked sx tracks 2/3 of the year and beat the GP guys at their own game. A certain few can. But in general we are falling behind.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Well I didn't have to look far- there's two people right here in this thread alone..[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/10/06/218523/s1200_IMG_8274.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/10/06/218524/s1200_IMG_8275.jpg[/img]

Well I didn't have to look far- there's two people right here in this thread alone..

Flip109 wrote:

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My...

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My rant was basically because i get so tired of hearing the same stupid line everytime a thread about this comes up. Somewhere 20 years ago or something somebody came up with this theory, and prob wrote it in a magazine article or some shit. Then people took it and ran with it I guess. Obviously not everyone feels that is the case. Most people feel our sx specialty is hurting our guys when we face GP riders in tough conditions esp on their playing turf. Our guys can no longer ride around on half baked sx tracks 2/3 of the year and beat the GP guys at their own game. A certain few can. But in general we are falling behind.

Tbteam wrote:

The first guy’s best friend was on the winning MXdN team five years in a row and has been privy to many conversations had by team...

The first guy’s best friend was on the winning MXdN team five years in a row and has been privy to many conversations had by team managers with insight into the success of the US teams. My comments related to the early years in the USA’s participation, which was a time that I’m guessing that you we’re still swimming around in your daddy’s nutsack.

ruy wrote:

And it would also be nice to put more money into the awards for the riders of AMA Outdoors races, you pay very little.

ruy wrote:

And it would also be nice to put more money into the awards for the riders of AMA Outdoors races, you pay very little.

RandyS wrote:

I was going to make a smartass comment but I'm too confused to even think of anything worthy.

PRM31 wrote:

Some variety of soil would probably help US Nationals riders. A 17 SX and then 12 round MX series is not optimal for developing MX skills...

Some variety of soil would probably help US Nationals riders.

A 17 SX and then 12 round MX series is not optimal for developing MX skills. Not sure it really makes a huge difference, but I think it does detract form MX somewhat.

Tbteam wrote:

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the...

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the skills that they developed on technical SX tracks.

Times change, I guess

ruy wrote:

And it would also be nice to put more money into the awards for the riders of AMA Outdoors races, you pay very little.

RandyS wrote:

I was going to make a smartass comment but I'm too confused to even think of anything worthy.

ruy wrote:

Is not cuestion of comments, is cuestion the money.

GuyB wrote:

The technical skills developed on SX definitely help. I think in general, our guys also like a lot more hold-up in the suspension. The Euro guys...

The technical skills developed on SX definitely help. I think in general, our guys also like a lot more hold-up in the suspension. The Euro guys like to run it a bit deeper in the travel and aren't scared to use all of it. Personally, I think that contributes to the occasional crazy-looking crashes they get where the bike has bottomed out.

But watching Herlings, his bike setup seemed a lot smoother, and less hard-hitting (remember the longer header?) He'd be on the gas very early coming out of corners, and on it very hard.

RandyS wrote:

How much do the GPs pay in awards?

Flip109 wrote:

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My...

The first guy is just regurgitating the same ole line just like you did. Guyb thinks sx skills may help a rider in some regards. My rant was basically because i get so tired of hearing the same stupid line everytime a thread about this comes up. Somewhere 20 years ago or something somebody came up with this theory, and prob wrote it in a magazine article or some shit. Then people took it and ran with it I guess. Obviously not everyone feels that is the case. Most people feel our sx specialty is hurting our guys when we face GP riders in tough conditions esp on their playing turf. Our guys can no longer ride around on half baked sx tracks 2/3 of the year and beat the GP guys at their own game. A certain few can. But in general we are falling behind.

Tbteam wrote:

The first guy’s best friend was on the winning MXdN team five years in a row and has been privy to many conversations had by team...

The first guy’s best friend was on the winning MXdN team five years in a row and has been privy to many conversations had by team managers with insight into the success of the US teams. My comments related to the early years in the USA’s participation, which was a time that I’m guessing that you we’re still swimming around in your daddy’s nutsack.

Flip109 wrote:

Well then dustnutts. I guess these team managers were all wrong, or only right for the time being. Either way that doesn’t seem to be the...

Well then dustnutts. I guess these team managers were all wrong, or only right for the time being. Either way that doesn’t seem to be the case now does it?

Tbteam wrote:

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the...

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the skills that they developed on technical SX tracks.

Times change, I guess

BobbyM wrote:

Mark.. Lol. The fact the euros are better in motocross because they invented it... Duh

Tbteam wrote:

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the...

I remember a time, not so long ago, when one of the most cited reasons for the USA riders kicking butt at the MXdN was the skills that they developed on technical SX tracks.

Times change, I guess

BobbyM wrote:

Mark.. Lol. The fact the euros are better in motocross because they invented it... Duh

Tbteam wrote:

Lol, Bobby. Some of these “experts”...

BobbyM wrote:

Mark.. Lol. The fact the euros are better in motocross because they invented it... Duh

Tbteam wrote:

Lol, Bobby. Some of these “experts”...

NorCal 50+ wrote:

Tbteam you should ask db what he thinks about it. (The concept that US riders paid millions and millions of dollars to race dirt bikes can...

Tbteam you should ask db what he thinks about it. (The concept that US riders paid millions and millions of dollars to race dirt bikes can only ride a predictable, highly-groomed, man-made track- not those tricky outdoor tracks with ruts, sweeping turns, rocks etc.). That would be entertaining!
And Factory Honda can't build a shock that will circulate more than a few laps without breaking, because it was special mud.

Prejump wrote:

The only chance USA have of regaining world mx domination is getting on the MXGP band wagon. Think about it, USA are the only country in...

The only chance USA have of regaining world mx domination is getting on the MXGP band wagon.

Think about it, USA are the only country in the world that don't send their most elite riders to world championship racing.

It's like the US fans & Industry can't see the woods through the trees on this subject. Motocross around the world has progressed, sports usually do that it's normal. USA have been left behind.

If you cant beat them join them, or alternatively go waste your career hopping around in stadiums to satisfy the greed of the big corporations. Up to you...

early wrote:

Oh prejump, always good for a laugh.

Bruneval wrote:

Current riders on either side of The Atlantic are a product of the decisions made 5-10 years ago. What changed significantly back then? KTM began to...

Current riders on either side of The Atlantic are a product of the decisions made 5-10 years ago. What changed significantly back then? KTM began to emerge as a main player (no more so than in Europe).

As KTM went through a growth spurt, every kid in Europe grew up riding rough, mainly sandy tracks on explosive little [orange] bikes that were more often than not, way more than they could handle. They learned fast or got spat off because it was straight up harder. Kids back home jumped on KTM 50, 65, 85.... it was fairly rare to see them learning on PWs or TTRs for any longer than it took to learn the basics.

KTM invested in the future, and that started at home on the GP circuit, so you're seeing the results of what has been a very successful strategy for the company and the riders it trapped in back when nobody was paying attention.

PRM31 wrote:

Some variety of soil would probably help US Nationals riders. A 17 SX and then 12 round MX series is not optimal for developing MX skills...

Some variety of soil would probably help US Nationals riders.

A 17 SX and then 12 round MX series is not optimal for developing MX skills. Not sure it really makes a huge difference, but I think it does detract form MX somewhat.

Edge-Of-Adhesion wrote:

Soil is a big difference in my view, especially when its wet and that's something Seely said in his interview. I've ridden quite a bit in...

Soil is a big difference in my view, especially when its wet and that's something Seely said in his interview.

I've ridden quite a bit in several western states and the composition of the soil is very different to Europe. When it rains in Southern California riders often remark that traction is like Velcro. It's the opposite in Europe.

captmoto wrote:

Quatar, Argentina, Mexico and US are fly away races. It is a World Title.

JB 19 wrote:

One of my theories is the American prodigies, up to the point they are top pros, have become very specialized. When they are kids everything revolves...

One of my theories is the American prodigies, up to the point they are top pros, have become very specialized. When they are kids everything revolves around how to do the best at Loretta's. When they become pros most of them train on the same track during the summer and cookie cutter practice tracks in the fall and winter. The diversity isn't where it was just 10 years ago.

There are skills that cross over when you learn to race muddy harescrambles or dry sun baked high speed hard pack and tight hockey rink indoor tracks. The top American kids used to race anywhere all the time and in any conditions. Hell, I raced some flat track when I was a kid. Now if it doesn't apply to LL' s it's kind of meh. Cooper Webb seemed like as exception before he turned pro. He was out racing fair races and mixing it up all over the place getting racing experience. Cooper also seems like a throw back racer who just shows up and gets badass no matter what the track is like or who is there. (Barring his strange year in 17')

I think it's obvious that the top 15 GP guys are more well rounded riders than the top 15 Americans. It also doesn't help when the top Americans choose not to race or can't race the one measuring stick race because of injuries. ......and I don't see any of this changing as long as Supercross is what pays the house payments and buys the wedding rings and diapers. Maybe it's the new normal.