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What do you mean by nothing that you learned matches what you see in the MX world?
The guts of a concussion protocol are pretty much the same across the board, there will be slight differences based on type of sport, level of sport, and type of oversight i.e.. governing bodies, players unions.
There is currently NO concussion protocol in amateur MX racing. This is mostly due to the fact that there is no series or governing body for amateur racing.
I have tried with Dr. Augustine to promote a concussion program in amateur MX racing. With the exception of two promoters we where told to go pound sand. Promoters if not forced to spend money will not especially for something that will NOT make them MONEY.
Parents will claim how much they care for little johnny's safety but if you are going to pull little johnny out of a race for a concussion, all of a sudden the parents become MD's and claim we don't know what we are talking about and they know their child best and little johnny didn't have a concussion it was only a "minor ding".
Tell you what, let me have your phone number and the next time someone goes down I will call you from the track and you can give me a thumbs up or down for that rider.
I guess the jist of it is that I am not sure how you can truly "field" diagnose accurately TBI's? It seems like it's still very uncharted territory to much extent. In reference to pro MX/SX,I don't follow a ton of social media but enough to know that there is a general attitude of "if it can't be seen it doesn't exist." Not much can be done until riders/teams/sponsors/promoters, etc. decide to take it seriously. You would think Dave Mirra's situation would've opened some eyes but MX'ers are notoriously blind when confronted with injuries. Add to the fact that there is always some new naive cannon fodder for Feld to exploit makes it tough to withstand the pressure to ride even when it may be a poor decision long term.
The only thing that "might" help the amateur side is change on the professional side. You will never get any type of widespread concussion protocol in place in amateur MX. Again, too much ignorance and greed. Not that promoters are getting rich, just the opposite they feel they can't afford to turn away riders. I get it. Parents should make these decisions but won't. It seems that those chunks of plastic are more important that their kid's mental health. I have seen multiple riders get knocked out multiple times with a few weeks and still be riding. No blood or broken bones no injury. It's crazy the unseen damage TBI's can cause to a child's cognitive ability..........................
The Shop
And FWIW, I love Adam. Great kid, great personality and I really want to see him succeed. But when he's 45 years old I want him to be able to put together his thoughts and words just as well he does today.
They showed it better during the main broadcast.
He looks pretty limp in the split second you do see him on the ground... I've had the wind knocked out of me many times and I could still move around.
I'm not debating whether or not he should have raced, it's in regards to the people saying he was just winded.
It's always a encouraging sign when a medical/science professional professes their emotional bias towards their research.
Food for thought: when it was discovered that the world was not flat, it was not Galileo whose ego got hurt.
The very basis of my argument in this thread is not how much I know, but how much we do NOT know. Every day the news on this topic gets worse. And yeah, in 20 years, the tests and conclusions being drawn today will look like a "joke". Just as they do today when we look back at how this topic was viewed in 1997. I cant help it that some of you are still stuck in 1997 on this topic.
Eddie listed every possible alternative hypothesis except that maybe his tests outright failed. It's that sorta hubris that keeps me from blindly trusting the "professionals" on this topic. Science should welcome criticism.
For fucks sake, I've seen less emotional responses when God/religion is argued in the Off Topic section.
I know you can be a good dude , but right now , you should log off and don't respond any further. Just my advice.
It's a super dynamic topic. I dont have the answers. Heck, I dont even know who you blame in this case. Everyone is complicit. All I know is that this topic aint going away and should be handled with an open mind.
Us men have been banging our heads against shit for most of our lives. Imagine finding out in 20 years that we are all suffering from some form of CTE due to the harmonics of the engine of the dirtbikes we ride? How many times have we all fought with our wives because we had a short fuse that day. Or gotten road rage? Or yelled at our kids?
Maybe that is all avoidable if we can just explore the topic, even if the answers are ugly. That's why I want this topic explored. It's more than just the obvious concussions and "bell ringers".
Or maybe Im wrong. I can live with being wrong on this topic if in 20 years it is proven that way. Trust me, I dont want to be right on this one.
The fact that questioning the realities of CTE gets a emotional response out of people should tell you something.
Think about it.
The neuroscientist dropped in on this thread and his responses have all been logical and dry. No emotion whatsoever. And yeah, he is agreeing with my overall sentiment on this. If he's not credible I cant help you. And it certainly isnt my job do to research for you on a topic that you clearly dont really want to know the truth on.
I doubt Eddie's response is really much different than yours would be if he started critiquing your work.
Maybe you really are the good example of CTE in action.
Pit Row
Jeez. How could I have missed that. It’s not like EVERY controversial PED or concussion thread doesn’t get shipped here now is it.
Im not the common denominator here.
Same goes for this topic.
This sport still wants more evidence and it's fans to advance the issue before it can be considered a topic of civil conversation?
That is ridiculous and you know it.
There's plenty of evidence of the PED stuff. A certain rider got sent to race Europe because of a failed test. In any other major sport there would have been media all over that story and they would've flushed out the truth. Please dont pretend the media in this sport actually wants to break that story cause if y'all did, you would. You dont. And then have the nerve to ask fans for "evidence" of PED use?
The concussion topic is being swept under the rug no different. Why? Because nobody is going to like the truth on it. And I cannot say I blame anyone for that. It's not gonna be a pretty truth. But let's be honest, its the fact that this topic scares people is why it ends up in the dumbgeon. It has nothing to do with a lack of evidence. Read the tea leaves man, every other day a new study comes out on the realities of brain trauma and it's not hard to see the direction things are going.
In what has become THE issue in many sports, the main source of pubic dialogue for SX/MX unilaterally decided to push it to the back pages. GuyB, I don't know you, and you don't know me, so I cannot comment on what forces drive your decision-making. Friendships, financial, secret calls at 1:00 AM, who knows. But we know that you know this is a serious, challenging concern for all sports. To simply tag it as unwarranted fodder does no favors to the fans, the teams, Asterisks, and least of all, the riders. You can make a difference. The question is, will you?
It's very easy for us to sit back and demand hard hitting journalism. But if that would torpedo our livelihood, we'd be making the same decisions.
I too wish we could talk about this. But as I said in my most recent post, the media in this sport are in a impossible position.
Eddie's mistake was getting emotional about a topic that doesnt warrant emotion. Especially from a medical professional. Engaging in the dialogue is a no-win battle for him because due to liability reasons he must blindly defend his work. I'd strongly guess that if these discussions were had in private amongst trusted people, they'd be far less combative.
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