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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 7:18 PM

Mods/GuyB,

Someone notified me the thread about Cooper's Yamaha 450 from Saturday was deleted. I just looked for it, and it has vanished...so I gotta ask, why the heck aren't we allowed to talk about the design or handling of a particular motorcycle on a moto forum? There was obviously a bunch of jokes being made about the bike but it's nothing new. But there was also legitimate discussion about it's design, weight distribution, and past results in that thread. It's the only damn motorcycle with a backwards engine design and the numbers don't lie, so why would it not be okay to analyze the bike's handling and it's past results? Several pro riders have been vocal about and it sounds like Cooper might be in a hurry to get off it as well. I can't figure out why Vital would want to censor this type of discussion.

We were talking about a dirt bike, not a rider. Meanwhile, in other threads you have members throwing personal attacks at professional riders, calling them every vulgar name in the urban dictionary. So is it worse to call a bike a pig and talk about it's unconventional design than to call a rider a do*che, d*ck, f*cking moron, dip sh*t, etc? I would say the latter is much worse, but then again everyone is entitled to their own opinion so where do you draw the line?

Honest question, did the thread get the attention of one of your sponsors who asked you to delete it? That's the only thing I could imagine that would motivate Vital to completely delete the thread....I see a lot worse here so inquiring minds want to know, what happened there?

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lostboy819 lostboy819
7/3/2017 7:20 PM

Cause you don't bite the hand that feeds you. wink

Ed Johnson

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Crush Crush
7/3/2017 7:25 PM

Which thread?

This thread?

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/WTH-is-with-Coop,1322296?page=2

Cheers, Crush
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xr70 xr70
7/3/2017 7:26 PM
Photo
This is what is America becoming to, no more free speech anywhere!

Born in Prague,living in LA,so if you don't like my spelling,blow me!

18 YZ450F
16 Yamaha YXZ 1000R
17 Yamaha MT-10 FZ-10 165 Hp RWP
06 CRF450X street legal supermoto
06 RM250 smoker
1992 CR250R basket case
2006 CRF50








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TXDirt TXDirt
7/3/2017 7:26 PM
lostboy819 wrote:

Cause you don't bite the ...more

In all fairness the users here make the money for this site by all the "clicks" we give. No users, no clicks, no money.

Rather then whole sale deleting a thread it should go to the dumbgeon. This would satisfy the agent who calls the forum mod to have a thread deleted, while still giving this site some journalistic impartiality. Both are important.

Edit: in general I think they do a decent job moderating. Most threads get to stay. Some get put in the dumbgeon. Only a select few get deleted outright. I think they are pretty fair here.

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Steadman Steadman
7/3/2017 7:27 PM

Free speech is dead. Has been for awhile now.

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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 7:28 PM
Crush wrote:

Which thread?

This ...more

No, it was posted before this thread and even had a link to it in this thread and that was deleted as well...look at Kzizok's post toward the bottom, looks like he noticed it has been deleted....

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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 7:31 PM

Just noticed this from Johnny Depp in that same thread:

"conspiracy alert, the blue farm animal thread and links to it have vanished.."

Anyway, does Yamaha sponsor this site? I can't say I remember seeing any YZF ads....right now I'm looking at a Maxxis ad and some Snow Summit micro brew ad on the site while I'm typing.

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kiwifan kiwifan
7/3/2017 7:36 PM

The way I see it is that the Moderators have moderated, I have no issue with it.

Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

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JM485 JM485
7/3/2017 7:36 PM

Probably because they usually get filled with a bunch of morons who have never even ridden the bike, critiquing the design and telling us how they can tell it rides like crap from their couch. You bash that damn thing every chance you get, I'm no Yamaha fanboy but give it a damn rest already, it's seriously old and overplayed.

It's the same when any new bike comes out, unless it's lighter than a KTM or a two stroke everyone is convinced it handles like crap and is a POS.

How about a new rule, list the bikes you have personally ridden, and only then can you critique a bike you have experience with.

Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

3dpmoto.com



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xr70 xr70
7/3/2017 7:40 PM

Moderators are the KGB in here . LOL

Born in Prague,living in LA,so if you don't like my spelling,blow me!

18 YZ450F
16 Yamaha YXZ 1000R
17 Yamaha MT-10 FZ-10 165 Hp RWP
06 CRF450X street legal supermoto
06 RM250 smoker
1992 CR250R basket case
2006 CRF50








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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 7:42 PM
JM485 wrote:

Probably because they ...more

Everyone is going to have their favorites...not everyone is going to love "your bike". If the YZF had a design like the rest of them and wasn't getting piss poor results all these years then I don't think it would be discussed as much as it does.

I ride a 2006 RMZ 450. Go ahead, call it an overweight yellow hog ancient slow 4-speed piece of shit....do I really care? Why are the panties all getting in a wad when someone critiques the bike of their choice?

I love the look of the Yamaha and it's design would not affect me at my level....I would be stoked on one. However, we are talking about the top level of the sport here on the forums, and if you are in denial go look at the numbers, they don't lie.

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ML512 ML512
7/3/2017 7:51 PM
lostboy819 wrote:

Cause you don't bite the ...more

Yamaha hasn't been an advertiser the entire time I've worked at Vital (going on 4 years)...and they didn't do that hot in our Shootouts so yeah...

For the record, I didn't can the thread...

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Raoul Duke Raoul Duke
7/3/2017 7:52 PM

Did a guy at Yamaha take your mother out to a fancy seafood dinner and never call her again? You have a chub the size of the fucking Empire State Building for the Yamaha.

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JM485 JM485
7/3/2017 7:57 PM
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Everyone is going to have ...more

I don't care what anyone thinks of these bikes, I ride a yz250 and have an 11 yz450f that I use as a hillclimber, so neither one is relevant to this argument. My point, which I thought was pretty clear, is how laughable it is that a bunch of vet track heroes on Vital are critiquing a bike they have zero experience with. If you haven't ridden a particular bike, how in the hell can you say what it feels like, how it rides, or whether it feels heavy or not? Here's the simple answer, you can't.

If someone came on here and asked "what's better, a 250sx or a yz250?", would it be right for me to go on and on about how much better the YZ is since that's my "opinion", even though I've never even ridden the KTM? No! An acceptable and reasonable response would be talking about my experience with my YZ, what I feel its strengths and weaknesses are, and give the poster relevant info that I have the qualifications to give. Blindly posting about something you know nothing about isn't an "opinion", it's complete bs and doesn't do anyone any good.

Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

3dpmoto.com



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Johnny Depp Johnny Depp
7/3/2017 8:01 PM

The thread had some hilarious photoshop work by BDB. Seeing a farm animal racing Red Bud was amazing.

There was also some serious analysis from a variety of angles, and I respect the mods and in the thread commented that Yamaha would be hiring a hit man. There wasn't a bunch of inappropriate language or threats, just analysis.

So just like the Roczen partying photos, it is now a memory that adds to the lore of the Vital community.

2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

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Hut Hut
7/3/2017 8:02 PM

The blue pig art is lost? shocked

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Hut Hut
7/3/2017 8:06 PM
JM485 wrote:

I don't care what anyone ...more

What about the drawings illustrating mass centralization as compared to other models?

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ML512 ML512
7/3/2017 8:06 PM
Raoul Duke wrote:

Did a guy at Yamaha take ...more

Who?

Btw, is there something wrong with using your original account you've had since 2015?

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Johnny Depp Johnny Depp
7/3/2017 8:08 PM
Raoul Duke wrote:

Did a guy at Yamaha take ...more

ML512 wrote:

Who?

Btw, is there ...more

He's referring to BDB's past posting.

2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

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Raoul Duke Raoul Duke
7/3/2017 8:10 PM
Raoul Duke wrote:

Did a guy at Yamaha take ...more

ML512 wrote:

Who?

Btw, is there ...more

Johnny Depp wrote:

He's referring to BDB's ...more

Check, should've quoted Bdb.

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ML512 ML512
7/3/2017 8:14 PM
Johnny Depp wrote:

He's referring to BDB's ...more

Gotcha.

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kzizok kzizok
7/3/2017 8:18 PM

I'm curious too. Maybe, it was the title? Can't really remember anything that jumps out at me.

much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 9:10 PM
Raoul Duke wrote:

Did a guy at Yamaha take ...more

What's worse? Posting something about someone's Mom, or calling a motorcycle a pig? It's just a motorcycle, not your woman. And why are you hiding behind a different account?

Those are a few things for you to think about...

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GuyB GuyB
7/3/2017 9:22 PM

Quoting BDB... Honest question, did the thread get the attention of one of your sponsors who asked you to delete it? That's the only thing I could imagine that would motivate Vital to completely delete the thread....I see a lot worse here so inquiring minds want to know, what happened there?



No, no one asked me to delete it. I toyed with the idea of tossing it in the Dumbgeon, but figured it wasn't of high enough quality to make the cut there. wink

That you "see a lot worse here" is subjective. JM465's analysis is probably pretty close. "Probably because they usually get filled with a bunch of morons who have never even ridden the bike, critiquing the design and telling us how they can tell it rides like crap from their couch. You bash that damn thing every chance you get, I'm no Yamaha fanboy but give it a damn rest already, it's seriously old and overplayed."

When you call it a blue pig in the headline to say that you're having a "legitimate discussion" is laughable. You've already made up your mind.

I also have to chuckle when people are trying to compare what Coop rides to the production bike. Sure, it shares the same frame and engine cases. It's also blue. But this ain't like the days when Hannah was riding a stock bike.

When BDB also asks, "So is it worse to call a bike a pig and talk about it's unconventional design than to call a rider a do*che, d*ck, f*cking moron, dip sh*t, etc?" No, it's not. I issued one vacation to a forum member yesterday for some rider-bashing. I also clip a bunch of non-essential stuff from threads when users here start bashing each other.

I read a lot. But I don't/can't read everything that gets posted. During the summer there's the usual work to do, plus the time I spend driving from race to race. My email (sgiberson@vitalmx.com) is always available for people to let me know if stuff is getting out of hand.

So while XR70 has taken two feeble attempts to paint us as Russians or KGB, I think trying to maintain some sort of order is not out of order.

Oh, and as far as any Ken Roczen Red Bud posts go, I think he self-deleted stuff from his IG account. We didn't delete anything. I think people are a little confused.

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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 9:57 PM
GuyB wrote:

Quoting BDB... Honest ...more

I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing.

As far as the bike, yes I've made up my mind as have many others. Why wouldn't you consider it a legitimate discussion when Cooper gets bucked over the bars? We are talking about weight distribution and the geometry of a bike. The image below was posted in the thread that you deleted. Can anyone honestly say as a rider you don't think the amount of mass in front of the green line would affect the weight distribution and handling? Compare the YZF with the other bikes. Now go strap a weight on the fork of your mountain bike and tell me if it handles any different. Every little ounce and change in +/- degrees dramatically affects the handling, this is no secret. Go over to the VitalMB forum and look at all the discussions about bikes that have a 2-3 degree difference in geometry and how it affects the handling.

Also, take one of these spinner gadgets down below that all the kids are playing with and spin it in your hand. What do you feel when you change the angles? Now do you think spinning a big ass motor around in the chassis and drastically changing the angle of the head might affect handling somehow? It doesn't matter if it's a production bike or Cooper's bike, the design is totally different (and extreme) compared to all the bikes we've been riding for years. Some things work, some things don't. It works in the 250, but not in the 450 for some reason. If the yamaha was doing better all these years at the top we wouldn't be talking about it (Europe doesn't count, different bike)...this is all legitimate discussion, so I'll take it as you just didn't like the famous blue pig picassos. No worries, at least I know now that it was not a sponsor that asked you to delete it.

Photo
Photo

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mattyhamz2 mattyhamz2
7/3/2017 10:31 PM
JM485 wrote:

Probably because they ...more

Couldn't agree more! Always found it interesting to see so many people talk so much crap about a bike they've never ridden.

What happened to Coop wasn't the bikes fault. It was his body positioning and where he ended up. Same thing would have happened on any bike. Some of you talk so much crap about the "blue pig" but I absolutely love my 14 YZ450. So many guys talk about how great the new Honda is, but I rode it and hated it. At least I have the experience on both to give my opinion on them.

Maybe if you rode the newer yamaha you'd realize it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

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Black Diesel Bomber Black Diesel Bomber
7/3/2017 11:03 PM
JM485 wrote:

Probably because they ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Couldn't agree more! ...more

I'm sure the bike is fine for the average Joe, Yamaha makes a quality product and if I was in the market for a 250 I would buy a Yamaha. I rode the 450 a few years ago and it felt fine to me, but I'm not going AMA top 10 speed and neither are you or any Vital regulars (with DV being the exception and maybe a few other pros who post here).

So what do you and JM485 have to say about weight distribution comparison in the image above? If you don't think there's something wonky with that design that could affect this bike at the top of the sport then you are kidding yourselves. If you are in denial, go strap a weight to the front of your mountain bike like I mentioned and tell me what happens.

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BobPA BobPA
7/3/2017 11:05 PM
mattyhamz2 wrote:

Couldn't agree more! ...more

I have ridden a bunch of Yamaha's. Engine=awesome. Chassis/handling=dumpster fire. But, certainly not unrideable.

Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

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kiwifan kiwifan
7/3/2017 11:11 PM
JM485 wrote:

Probably because they ...more

yes, same thing happened when the new Zook 450 came out, when the new Honda 250 was spied in Japan, same as the 18 honda 450...the amount of experts here that say its too heavy, wont make enough power, will handle like shit, without even putting a leg over it amazes me....perhaps they think being negative will a) make it come true or b) have pleasure in saying "I told you so" ...even tho in reality its a 50/50 call.

Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

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