Since when can't we critique a bike on a moto forum?

mattyhamz2
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7/3/2017 11:40pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Couldn't agree more! Always found it interesting to see so many people talk so much crap about a bike they've never ridden. What happened to Coop...
Couldn't agree more! Always found it interesting to see so many people talk so much crap about a bike they've never ridden.

What happened to Coop wasn't the bikes fault. It was his body positioning and where he ended up. Same thing would have happened on any bike. Some of you talk so much crap about the "blue pig" but I absolutely love my 14 YZ450. So many guys talk about how great the new Honda is, but I rode it and hated it. At least I have the experience on both to give my opinion on them.

Maybe if you rode the newer yamaha you'd realize it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
BobPA wrote:
I have ridden a bunch of Yamaha's. Engine=awesome. Chassis/handling=dumpster fire. But, certainly not unrideable.
That's how I feel about the 17 Honda chassis and handling. Turned decent, but the bike handled like crap through every section that wasn't completely smooth. But I'm not going to come around here telling everyone it's a piece of shit just because I didn't like it. I'll give my opinion on what I thought it did and didn't do well, but I sure as hell won't put it down every time the opportunity is there. Unfortunately ive seen more than a few do it with the YZ450, some with and some without the experience riding them.

It gets really old after a while.
sickboy3636
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7/3/2017 11:43pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2017 11:47pm
The YZF def has a strange feel, but I don't think it's as bad as people love to make it out to be. Riding style makes a big difference as to where you prefer your weight to be. For people that rear steer and don't like riding on top of the front wheel, the YZF is a pretty good bike. But if you want an off the showroom floor straight bacon grease dumpster fire, go ride an 09-12 Honda 450. I loved My 07 Honda so much that I went and bought one brand spanking new without a second thought or a test ride. That bike sucked so much ass I nearly lost interest in riding/racing altogether.
wsc96
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7/4/2017 1:35am
Interesting dynamic. The VitalMX members and the forums in particular surely have a significant impact in the business' success. Wonder how many people visit the home page only and don't add to the forum views.
Ferro
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7/4/2017 1:51am
Dean Ferris sure did seem to struggle with it....

The Shop

fullfloater
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7/4/2017 2:08am
wsc96 wrote:
Interesting dynamic. The VitalMX members and the forums in particular surely have a significant impact in the business' success. Wonder how many people visit the home...
Interesting dynamic. The VitalMX members and the forums in particular surely have a significant impact in the business' success. Wonder how many people visit the home page only and don't add to the forum views.
Not many... Could someone please explain why people/mags seem to love the YZ250F but the YZ450F is a Boston Steamer?
aaryn #234
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7/4/2017 3:02am
GuyB wrote:
Quoting BDB... Honest question, did the thread get the attention of one of your sponsors who asked you to delete it? That's the only thing I...
Quoting BDB... Honest question, did the thread get the attention of one of your sponsors who asked you to delete it? That's the only thing I could imagine that would motivate Vital to completely delete the thread....I see a lot worse here so inquiring minds want to know, what happened there?



No, no one asked me to delete it. I toyed with the idea of tossing it in the Dumbgeon, but figured it wasn't of high enough quality to make the cut there. Wink

That you "see a lot worse here" is subjective. JM465's analysis is probably pretty close. "Probably because they usually get filled with a bunch of morons who have never even ridden the bike, critiquing the design and telling us how they can tell it rides like crap from their couch. You bash that damn thing every chance you get, I'm no Yamaha fanboy but give it a damn rest already, it's seriously old and overplayed."

When you call it a blue pig in the headline to say that you're having a "legitimate discussion" is laughable. You've already made up your mind.

I also have to chuckle when people are trying to compare what Coop rides to the production bike. Sure, it shares the same frame and engine cases. It's also blue. But this ain't like the days when Hannah was riding a stock bike.

When BDB also asks, "So is it worse to call a bike a pig and talk about it's unconventional design than to call a rider a do*che, d*ck, f*cking moron, dip sh*t, etc?" No, it's not. I issued one vacation to a forum member yesterday for some rider-bashing. I also clip a bunch of non-essential stuff from threads when users here start bashing each other.

I read a lot. But I don't/can't read everything that gets posted. During the summer there's the usual work to do, plus the time I spend driving from race to race. My email (sgiberson@vitalmx.com) is always available for people to let me know if stuff is getting out of hand.

So while XR70 has taken two feeble attempts to paint us as Russians or KGB, I think trying to maintain some sort of order is not out of order.

Oh, and as far as any Ken Roczen Red Bud posts go, I think he self-deleted stuff from his IG account. We didn't delete anything. I think people are a little confused.
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing...
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing.

As far as the bike, yes I've made up my mind as have many others. Why wouldn't you consider it a legitimate discussion when Cooper gets bucked over the bars? We are talking about weight distribution and the geometry of a bike. The image below was posted in the thread that you deleted. Can anyone honestly say as a rider you don't think the amount of mass in front of the green line would affect the weight distribution and handling? Compare the YZF with the other bikes. Now go strap a weight on the fork of your mountain bike and tell me if it handles any different. Every little ounce and change in +/- degrees dramatically affects the handling, this is no secret. Go over to the VitalMB forum and look at all the discussions about bikes that have a 2-3 degree difference in geometry and how it affects the handling.

Also, take one of these spinner gadgets down below that all the kids are playing with and spin it in your hand. What do you feel when you change the angles? Now do you think spinning a big ass motor around in the chassis and drastically changing the angle of the head might affect handling somehow? It doesn't matter if it's a production bike or Cooper's bike, the design is totally different (and extreme) compared to all the bikes we've been riding for years. Some things work, some things don't. It works in the 250, but not in the 450 for some reason. If the yamaha was doing better all these years at the top we wouldn't be talking about it (Europe doesn't count, different bike)...this is all legitimate discussion, so I'll take it as you just didn't like the famous blue pig picassos. No worries, at least I know now that it was not a sponsor that asked you to delete it.



But if it does not work, how on earth did Dean Ferris run second in his first American 450 motocross aboard one.

How can the bike win everywhere else in the world?

Maybe it is just the fact that the right rider in the U.S is yet to race the YZ450? Though I think Cooper will get better and win on the bike with more time in the class.

HenryA
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7/4/2017 3:05am
aaryn #234 wrote:
But if it does not work, how on earth did Dean Ferris run second in his first American 450 motocross aboard one. How can the bike...
But if it does not work, how on earth did Dean Ferris run second in his first American 450 motocross aboard one.

How can the bike win everywhere else in the world?

Maybe it is just the fact that the right rider in the U.S is yet to race the YZ450? Though I think Cooper will get better and win on the bike with more time in the class.

Funny part is that it seems like the only team that can't find a good setup on the Yamaha is the Factory Yamaha team... Tongue
FI2T
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7/4/2017 3:22am
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing...
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing.

As far as the bike, yes I've made up my mind as have many others. Why wouldn't you consider it a legitimate discussion when Cooper gets bucked over the bars? We are talking about weight distribution and the geometry of a bike. The image below was posted in the thread that you deleted. Can anyone honestly say as a rider you don't think the amount of mass in front of the green line would affect the weight distribution and handling? Compare the YZF with the other bikes. Now go strap a weight on the fork of your mountain bike and tell me if it handles any different. Every little ounce and change in +/- degrees dramatically affects the handling, this is no secret. Go over to the VitalMB forum and look at all the discussions about bikes that have a 2-3 degree difference in geometry and how it affects the handling.

Also, take one of these spinner gadgets down below that all the kids are playing with and spin it in your hand. What do you feel when you change the angles? Now do you think spinning a big ass motor around in the chassis and drastically changing the angle of the head might affect handling somehow? It doesn't matter if it's a production bike or Cooper's bike, the design is totally different (and extreme) compared to all the bikes we've been riding for years. Some things work, some things don't. It works in the 250, but not in the 450 for some reason. If the yamaha was doing better all these years at the top we wouldn't be talking about it (Europe doesn't count, different bike)...this is all legitimate discussion, so I'll take it as you just didn't like the famous blue pig picassos. No worries, at least I know now that it was not a sponsor that asked you to delete it.



Who has Yamaha had recently that you could say was going to win? Barcia? I think he did win in mx. Has he or will he win on the Suzuki? My guess is no. Does that mean the Suzuki isn't a great bike, not at all. Roczen was unbeatable on the Suzuki. The Honda bucked Roczen twice bad. Was that the Honda's fault? Let's face facts there are a few guys who can or will win no matter what bikes they get on. They also are going to wreck here and there regardless of what bike they are riding. Do you honestly think Roczen, Tomac or Dungey would not win on a Yamaha?
MxKing809
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7/4/2017 3:33am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 3:36am
You guys are realllllly something.....

I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm


Just look at that thing not hook up.....





I'm a bigger guy. 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I ride over the front a lot. For me, I've made some chassis tweaks (102 sag, 24mm clamps, and 8mm fork height) and wouldn't trade this thing for my buddies '17 KTM.





Motofinne
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7/4/2017 3:33am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 3:38am
I'm amazed how many of you look at the pro racers and judge bikes after that.

Have you actually rode the bike you're talking about? You have some kind of credibility to speak up if your answer is yes.

Did you answer no? Well your thoughts means nothing, absolutely nothing.
sgrimmxdad
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7/4/2017 4:08am
Red plate on a privateer Yamaha in Canada right now isnt it? Even stock suspension done by FC, I read.... Bike can't be that bad... Go to most local tracks and I see the blue 450 dominating... The bike is not the problem.... I have a good friend that is an A rider, he went from Honda to Yamaha and loves the bike. Different strokes for different folks...
yak651
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7/4/2017 4:35am
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing...
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing.

As far as the bike, yes I've made up my mind as have many others. Why wouldn't you consider it a legitimate discussion when Cooper gets bucked over the bars? We are talking about weight distribution and the geometry of a bike. The image below was posted in the thread that you deleted. Can anyone honestly say as a rider you don't think the amount of mass in front of the green line would affect the weight distribution and handling? Compare the YZF with the other bikes. Now go strap a weight on the fork of your mountain bike and tell me if it handles any different. Every little ounce and change in +/- degrees dramatically affects the handling, this is no secret. Go over to the VitalMB forum and look at all the discussions about bikes that have a 2-3 degree difference in geometry and how it affects the handling.

Also, take one of these spinner gadgets down below that all the kids are playing with and spin it in your hand. What do you feel when you change the angles? Now do you think spinning a big ass motor around in the chassis and drastically changing the angle of the head might affect handling somehow? It doesn't matter if it's a production bike or Cooper's bike, the design is totally different (and extreme) compared to all the bikes we've been riding for years. Some things work, some things don't. It works in the 250, but not in the 450 for some reason. If the yamaha was doing better all these years at the top we wouldn't be talking about it (Europe doesn't count, different bike)...this is all legitimate discussion, so I'll take it as you just didn't like the famous blue pig picassos. No worries, at least I know now that it was not a sponsor that asked you to delete it.



Let me guess, you're not an engineer but stayed at a holiday in? So now the Yamaha bucked Coop on on the start because he tucked the front end? So what about Martin washing out his Honda on the start, bike or his fault? What about the issues KR had on the new CRF, pretty much every other race he was bucked off it, bikes fault or his? Gaiser winning everything last year, on the new CRF this year and can't go a race without crashing? Put the blinders on, only the bikes fault when they are on a Yamaha...
PRM31
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7/4/2017 4:41am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 5:11am
I have not ridden the YZ, but I do think it is fair to question whether centralizing the mass of a bike front to rear actually helps. Most agree that lowering the mass is a good thing. Less effort to move bike side to side and less effort to counter the movement of the bike when it's trying to roll against your wishes. By moving the weight towards the center front to rear, the bike will pitch easier. Simple physics. Yamaha has done that by moving the cylinder back, and by having more fuel located further back. But is that a good thing? Now, were not talking a night and day difference, but rather some small percentage. But is that small change a good change? The bike will transfer weight between the front and rear tires more frequently, and quicker. Again, that's physics. I have not heard a good argument for why that would be desirable. I'm not suggesting it is worse, or better, but it is a little different.

As for deleting content. I think the OP has a valid point that much worse content directed at people is allowed to stand, yet comments about a bike, even if childish or not supported by experience, get censored. That's a slippery slope. I have to assume there was a comment by someone wearing blue that germinated the seed for that decision.. So, my challenge to those in blue; convince me why I should want the design of the bike to be more centralized front to rear.
7/4/2017 5:42am
Man, I missed some "Blue Pig" stuff from BDBro? I've been cheated!

Regarding the YZF - there is real science behind the centralizing of mass. Yamaha has done a spectacular job of centralizing the mass of the bike - perhaps too good of a job.

Apparently Yamaha agrees with many of you as for 2018 they have tilted the engine 6 degrees further forward and made some other changes to move some weight forward.

I'd also like to say that in that picture above of the four bikes lined up top to bottom, in my honest opinion, the Yamaha sure looks bad-ass compared to the others. The Kawasaki especially looks...dumpy? Cobbled together? KTM looks pretty good. Glad they brought back the orange frame. Don't like the Honda look - too sharp or something in the back and don't like the tank shape. New Zook looks pretty good. Anyhow, it's just looks and really means nothing - certainly won't make us any faster.

And speaking of Honda, how come you didn't include it in the line-up BDBro? Also, I would like to see you do the same thing only adding the 2017 Yamaha into the mix to see the difference between the 2018 and 2017.
BobPA
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7/4/2017 5:52am
MxKing809 wrote:
You guys are realllllly something..... I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm Just look at...
You guys are realllllly something.....

I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm


Just look at that thing not hook up.....





I'm a bigger guy. 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I ride over the front a lot. For me, I've made some chassis tweaks (102 sag, 24mm clamps, and 8mm fork height) and wouldn't trade this thing for my buddies '17 KTM.





I do not understand how the pictures prove anything? It only proves you are triggered that people are bashing your precious Yamaha.
mxb2
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7/4/2017 6:24am
The blue pig phrase sounds like you are 10 years old, we get it you don't like the bike. Saying it every post makes you sound like a fool.
Raoul Duke
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7/4/2017 6:31am
Raoul Duke wrote:
Did a guy at Yamaha take your mother out to a fancy seafood dinner and never call her again? You have a chub the size of...
Did a guy at Yamaha take your mother out to a fancy seafood dinner and never call her again? You have a chub the size of the fucking Empire State Building for the Yamaha.
What's worse? Posting something about someone's Mom, or calling a motorcycle a pig? It's just a motorcycle, not your woman. And why are you hiding behind...
What's worse? Posting something about someone's Mom, or calling a motorcycle a pig? It's just a motorcycle, not your woman. And why are you hiding behind a different account?

Those are a few things for you to think about...
What's worse? Obsessively calling out an inanimate object repeatedly on an internet website or spinning someone's joke of a comment into a serious statement? And alas! I've been found out, the old husqvarna hustla account got thrown in the trash after I sold both my huskys and bought a Honda. I didn't want to be posting photos of my big red pig under the guise of a husky rider. Those are a few things for you to think about while you watch anchorman and try to get your sense of humor back.
Johnny Depp
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7/4/2017 6:40am
If winning on Saturday creates sales on Tuesday, why shouldn't losing hurt sales?
Crush
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7/4/2017 6:46am
Man, I missed some "Blue Pig" stuff from BDBro? I've been cheated! Regarding the YZF - there is real science behind the centralizing of mass. Yamaha...
Man, I missed some "Blue Pig" stuff from BDBro? I've been cheated!

Regarding the YZF - there is real science behind the centralizing of mass. Yamaha has done a spectacular job of centralizing the mass of the bike - perhaps too good of a job.

Apparently Yamaha agrees with many of you as for 2018 they have tilted the engine 6 degrees further forward and made some other changes to move some weight forward.

I'd also like to say that in that picture above of the four bikes lined up top to bottom, in my honest opinion, the Yamaha sure looks bad-ass compared to the others. The Kawasaki especially looks...dumpy? Cobbled together? KTM looks pretty good. Glad they brought back the orange frame. Don't like the Honda look - too sharp or something in the back and don't like the tank shape. New Zook looks pretty good. Anyhow, it's just looks and really means nothing - certainly won't make us any faster.

And speaking of Honda, how come you didn't include it in the line-up BDBro? Also, I would like to see you do the same thing only adding the 2017 Yamaha into the mix to see the difference between the 2018 and 2017.
Ya I think the fact the engine is being rotated and shifted forward slightly each revision is a good indication that they're still working on the balance...

As far as anyone's analysis, it takes a few minutes to find quotes from various riders saying it's a hard bike to setup... it can be good, but isn't as flexible to setup as some others.

Which of course has no bearing on how most here would feel... Cause most here are probably too slow to be on a 450 regardless.
7/4/2017 6:53am
Come on, give BDBro a break. He's just having fun and enjoying the forum. The last 3 machines I've plunked down cash for were/are Yamahas. I like my Yamaha. I don't like the transmission, but I like the overall machine (250 smoker). It's stable, predictable, soaks up bumps, jumps etc., with nary a whimper. I am too old and jaded to be a "fanboy" of anything mechanical, so I just prefer to laugh at BDBros "Blue Pig" stuff. I find it entertaining. I've even asked him to post it up in the recent past and he demurred.

Besides, like I said above in my previous post, apparently Yamaha has realized it got a bit carried away with the mass centralizing. Doesn't mean the 2017 (and back) aren't competitive. They most definitely are, and I've argued before that Yamaha just needs a rider here in the states capable of regular wins and we wouldn't be having these conversations. I too have noted how many local competitors go fast and win on the big blue pig as well.

Now I suppose the only thing left to do is to wait on the reports about the 2018. Has Yamaha finally perfected the design? We shall soon find out.

BDBro, don't get discouraged. I really would like to see that line comparison you made above, but with both the new Yamaha and the 2017 Yamaha AND the Honda. It is an interesting comparison you've made. Anyone notice how both KTM and Yamaha mufflers don't go past the rear axle? Look where Kawasaki's and Suzuki's mufflers line up over the axle.
MxKing809
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7/4/2017 6:53am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 6:54am
MxKing809 wrote:
You guys are realllllly something..... I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm Just look at...
You guys are realllllly something.....

I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm


Just look at that thing not hook up.....





I'm a bigger guy. 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I ride over the front a lot. For me, I've made some chassis tweaks (102 sag, 24mm clamps, and 8mm fork height) and wouldn't trade this thing for my buddies '17 KTM.





BobPA wrote:
I do not understand how the pictures prove anything? It only proves you are triggered that people are bashing your precious Yamaha.
Once someone posts a photo of them riding a 16-17 YZ I'll listen to their opinion.
Nighttrain
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7/4/2017 7:06am
aaryn #234 wrote:
But if it does not work, how on earth did Dean Ferris run second in his first American 450 motocross aboard one. How can the bike...
But if it does not work, how on earth did Dean Ferris run second in his first American 450 motocross aboard one.

How can the bike win everywhere else in the world?

Maybe it is just the fact that the right rider in the U.S is yet to race the YZ450? Though I think Cooper will get better and win on the bike with more time in the class.

"the right rider in the US is yet to race theYZ450?". Good question. From 2012-Present the YZ450F has a 2/31 success ratio for the Season Points Podiums (US SX & MX). 2012 SX - Millsaps, 2nd Overall. 2015 MX - Barcia, 3rd Overall.

But there's a 1/1 projected success ratio that the racks of BBQ ribs I'll pull off the Green Egg this afternoon will be winners. Happy 4th, y'all.
tcallahan707
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7/4/2017 7:18am
Man, I missed some "Blue Pig" stuff from BDBro? I've been cheated! Regarding the YZF - there is real science behind the centralizing of mass. Yamaha...
Man, I missed some "Blue Pig" stuff from BDBro? I've been cheated!

Regarding the YZF - there is real science behind the centralizing of mass. Yamaha has done a spectacular job of centralizing the mass of the bike - perhaps too good of a job.

Apparently Yamaha agrees with many of you as for 2018 they have tilted the engine 6 degrees further forward and made some other changes to move some weight forward.

I'd also like to say that in that picture above of the four bikes lined up top to bottom, in my honest opinion, the Yamaha sure looks bad-ass compared to the others. The Kawasaki especially looks...dumpy? Cobbled together? KTM looks pretty good. Glad they brought back the orange frame. Don't like the Honda look - too sharp or something in the back and don't like the tank shape. New Zook looks pretty good. Anyhow, it's just looks and really means nothing - certainly won't make us any faster.

And speaking of Honda, how come you didn't include it in the line-up BDBro? Also, I would like to see you do the same thing only adding the 2017 Yamaha into the mix to see the difference between the 2018 and 2017.
Crush wrote:
Ya I think the fact the engine is being rotated and shifted forward slightly each revision is a good indication that they're still working on the...
Ya I think the fact the engine is being rotated and shifted forward slightly each revision is a good indication that they're still working on the balance...

As far as anyone's analysis, it takes a few minutes to find quotes from various riders saying it's a hard bike to setup... it can be good, but isn't as flexible to setup as some others.

Which of course has no bearing on how most here would feel... Cause most here are probably too slow to be on a 450 regardless.
It's so obvious that at the factory level, where setup is the key to gaining that half second edge, the Yamaha is so hit or miss. On certain days when it's on (and the rider is on due to being more comfortable), it's capable of winning. We've see it with Coop, Chad, and Barcia. But when it's off, it's so much worse than any other bike based on how far back the guys are. That goes to show that it's a very picky bike to set up at the top level. I have no doubt in my mind that it works well at the test track, but we've seen the impact when test and race track conditions aren't similar enough to get a dialed in setup. Tomac in SX was a 6-10 guy until he got dialed in. Now imagine if you can never find a true base setup because a bike is so picky. You get a lot of 6-10 finishes with a random win or podium when the stars align with track conditions. You also have riders who don't have a ton of confidence.

Now, to the average joe or local pro, a setup that is only a second slower probably isn't going to hurt the results at all.
doofy
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7/4/2017 7:19am
I know this has been years ago but we all know the shelacking james gave the yzf, however i went back and watched then 2010 "bar to bar" and it was typical james, he won or crashed. Now if i had never gone back and watched that, i would have just assumed the bike was a POS and James hated it with a passion.and maybe he did, however he looked no different on it than any other bike.

Same with his suzuki.. he comes out 4-0 and loves it. Towards the end he cant keep the bike on 2 wheels to save his life and now the suzuki is also junk.
ML512
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7/4/2017 7:20am
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing...
I get it, you have a tough job to babysit all that's going on here, I respect that. Not something any of us would enjoy doing.

As far as the bike, yes I've made up my mind as have many others. Why wouldn't you consider it a legitimate discussion when Cooper gets bucked over the bars? We are talking about weight distribution and the geometry of a bike. The image below was posted in the thread that you deleted. Can anyone honestly say as a rider you don't think the amount of mass in front of the green line would affect the weight distribution and handling? Compare the YZF with the other bikes. Now go strap a weight on the fork of your mountain bike and tell me if it handles any different. Every little ounce and change in +/- degrees dramatically affects the handling, this is no secret. Go over to the VitalMB forum and look at all the discussions about bikes that have a 2-3 degree difference in geometry and how it affects the handling.

Also, take one of these spinner gadgets down below that all the kids are playing with and spin it in your hand. What do you feel when you change the angles? Now do you think spinning a big ass motor around in the chassis and drastically changing the angle of the head might affect handling somehow? It doesn't matter if it's a production bike or Cooper's bike, the design is totally different (and extreme) compared to all the bikes we've been riding for years. Some things work, some things don't. It works in the 250, but not in the 450 for some reason. If the yamaha was doing better all these years at the top we wouldn't be talking about it (Europe doesn't count, different bike)...this is all legitimate discussion, so I'll take it as you just didn't like the famous blue pig picassos. No worries, at least I know now that it was not a sponsor that asked you to delete it.



Europe doesn't count? Laughing
JM485
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Davis, CA US
7/4/2017 7:59am
ML512 wrote:
Europe doesn't count? Laughing
Lol, I was going to post a decent reply, then I read that and realized I'm dealing with someone with absolutely zero grasp of reality or logic. As far as I'm aware they have this same "radical" layout across the pond, but that one doesn't count since it's won multiple times.
Flip109
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7/4/2017 8:01am
My only issues with the 14 I rode was it felt like you were riding a John Deere. It was wide af. Felt sluggish in the corners. I hate that feeling in a bike. It would hold a straight line in some whoops and bumps for days tho. So I guess after you are used to the width and sluggish feel. It's prob ok. The 18 looks a lot slimmer up front. I'd love to ride one.
JM485
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7/4/2017 8:20am
Come on, give BDBro a break. He's just having fun and enjoying the forum. The last 3 machines I've plunked down cash for were/are Yamahas. I...
Come on, give BDBro a break. He's just having fun and enjoying the forum. The last 3 machines I've plunked down cash for were/are Yamahas. I like my Yamaha. I don't like the transmission, but I like the overall machine (250 smoker). It's stable, predictable, soaks up bumps, jumps etc., with nary a whimper. I am too old and jaded to be a "fanboy" of anything mechanical, so I just prefer to laugh at BDBros "Blue Pig" stuff. I find it entertaining. I've even asked him to post it up in the recent past and he demurred.

Besides, like I said above in my previous post, apparently Yamaha has realized it got a bit carried away with the mass centralizing. Doesn't mean the 2017 (and back) aren't competitive. They most definitely are, and I've argued before that Yamaha just needs a rider here in the states capable of regular wins and we wouldn't be having these conversations. I too have noted how many local competitors go fast and win on the big blue pig as well.

Now I suppose the only thing left to do is to wait on the reports about the 2018. Has Yamaha finally perfected the design? We shall soon find out.

BDBro, don't get discouraged. I really would like to see that line comparison you made above, but with both the new Yamaha and the 2017 Yamaha AND the Honda. It is an interesting comparison you've made. Anyone notice how both KTM and Yamaha mufflers don't go past the rear axle? Look where Kawasaki's and Suzuki's mufflers line up over the axle.
Harrybro, you have to realize this guys has zero credibility here. A graphic with lines isn't going to tell us anything about weight distribution, only a set of properly calibrated scales can do that and anyone who thinks they can do it by eye is either a fool or lying. Consider this, for a while Yamaha was the only jap bike with spring forks, so right here you have an extra 2-3 lbs or weight going over the front to make up for that tiny bit of motor lean. I'm not at all saying the bike doesn't ride different, based on my 11 it does, but for some armchair engineer to come on here and continually perpetuate misinformation is just ridiculous. There are some really knowledgable people on here with lots of experience on multiple bikes, and then you have this genius who can photoshop pig graphics because he has too much time on his hands, and firmly believes that a first turn crash in a deeply ripped corner is caused by a bike. I'm not saying riders don't struggle with it, it's different and there's no doubt about it, but bashing the damn thing every chance you get is annoying as all hell and really hurts credibility around here.

Take the new Honda for example, there's seriously guys on here convinced there is a magic spring in the frame that's booting people over the bars. Give me a fricken break, I know we like to pretend the pros are superhuman but the bottom line is they make mistakes just like everyone else, nobody is perfect every single time.

New Suzuki is the same deal, bike isn't even here yet and half of vital is convinced it will feel heavy, be slow, but the forks will be amazing since they stuck a spring back in and increased the internal sizes. My point here is until you've ridden a bike or have the firsthand knowledge to back up your claims, you're just pissing into the wind and providing nothing of useful substance, and that goes for any subject. Ever notice how some guys are just magically an expert on everything in non-moto?Laughing

Sorry Harrybro, that went on way longer than I originally intended, not all of that is for you brother. That coat of yours is enough to throw the balance of any bike off as it flaps in the wind, so this is all invalid for you anyways!Woohoo
JB 19
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7/4/2017 8:29am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 8:32am
Look up the results in all of the 450 related classes at Loretta's in 2015. If I remember right the Yamaha cleaned up down there. Even some vet classes.

Also the same year that Barcia and Webb rode really well at MXDN's on one and Webb rode well at the Glenn Helen GP.

Maybe the other bikes have progressed past it since then, I don't know.
kkawboy14
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7/4/2017 8:31am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2017 8:47am
MxKing809 wrote:
You guys are realllllly something..... I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm Just look at...
You guys are realllllly something.....

I'm glad bdb posted that graphic with the colored lines.... I guess I hate my YZ450F now. /sarcasm


Just look at that thing not hook up.....





I'm a bigger guy. 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I ride over the front a lot. For me, I've made some chassis tweaks (102 sag, 24mm clamps, and 8mm fork height) and wouldn't trade this thing for my buddies '17 KTM.





Forks look to stiff, thus the weight shifting back to the rear wheel to much, a perfect setup like on all Kawasaki's would be no roost just all forward drive......

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