Those flaggers don't know how to flag

Triton
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6/3/2017 10:02pm
It's hard to have a discussion about what the riders should and shouldn't do on a yellow when the flaggers arent doing what is needed. Name another professional sport where amateur, for hire people, are used in a safety position of professional atheletes. There is no excuse for this. Spend the money and do it proper Davey. This is embarrassing. These teams and riders should be able to have faith in the flaggers and safety.
6/3/2017 10:12pm
mb60 wrote:
What was sad is that was a AMA official that was just a stupid as the volunteer. Again another reason why these clowns are even involved...
What was sad is that was a AMA official that was just a stupid as the volunteer. Again another reason why these clowns are even involved in mx period.
That wasn't an AMA official. That guy is a paid employee of MX Sports. Other than being a sanctioning body the AMA has nothing to do with running the Outdoor National Series. The rights to run all AMA Pro Racing events was won by DMG (Daytona Motorsports Group=Nascar) who in turn leased the rights for the National MX series to MX Sports.

https://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Home/News-Story/ama-selects-daytona-motorsports-group-to-manage-professional-racing-series
6/3/2017 10:21pm
JustMX wrote:
What do you want him to do? He is in a visible area waving the flag vigorously. If the riders chose to ignore the flag and...
What do you want him to do? He is in a visible area waving the flag vigorously. If the riders chose to ignore the flag and keep charging like they have to finish 29th or die than he shouldn't be expected to step out in front of them. Nick came along after the pack had thined out considerably.
If you realistically expect the flagger to run out in the race line than be prepared for red flags to come out when they get mowed over.

Tcallahan, I doubt there are many national tracks that aren't paying their flaggers.
I just wanted him to do what Nick Wey did... that's all. Direct the riders away from the hazard, it wasn't difficult.
lostboy819
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6/4/2017 1:40am
MXMattii wrote:
There are two men waving yellow and NON of the riders is slowing down. That is more a problem then the flaggers not stepping into the...
There are two men waving yellow and NON of the riders is slowing down. That is more a problem then the flaggers not stepping into the track. OK they weren't on a ideal place but those riders should've slowed down and should've been more carefull because they don't know what is behind the jump. At a certaint point you see 5 yellow flags and still riders are going for it, damn! Those flaggers aren't responsible for empty headed racers.
Exactly. When you see them heading for the blind jump there are three flaggers waving their flags and then two more and the riders dont even slow down,what does Plessinger think they should stop the race so he can get back in it without losing a position ? if you fall in a corner you can get up and only lose a few spots , you crash where he did ,you wont get going again until everyone is past. Canard pulled the same crap a few years ago,he falls on a blind jump then waves his arms like a madman thinking the oncoming riders can figure out what he is doing. If riders dont slow down for 5 flaggers then they deserve what ever comes their way. This is why flashing yellow lights wont work either because the riders dont give a shit , that is until they hit a downed rider then they will bitch about flaggers.

Ant the dip shit who took the flag and stood in the middle of the track he is lucky he didn't get nailed then maybe he would have figured it out, what a moron.

The Shop

JustMX
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6/4/2017 3:45am
Which way are the flaggers supposed to direct them? What exactly is the flagger sign of "ok guys, you have about 3' on your right side, and a strip down the middle"?

Bike is on one side, rider is on the other.there only option is to just Let the riders know there is an issue. If the chose not to let off to see what the problem is then they are the one at fault.

While it is admirable what nick wey tried to do, once he gets the flag, only 3 or 4 riders go by. Whole different deal then when they are coming by in a group.

It is easy for grant Langston to babble on about somebody should do something. He is paid to babble on. Weege was the voice of reason.

For those of you, like crusher, that think jumping out in front of the riders is "part of the job", I promise you, it is not. I say that as someone that has gotten hit by a 450A rider at LL's. I say that as someone that has seen it happen to many flaggers over the years, including two that suffered broken femurs. I say that as someone that remembers reading about the flagger at Washougal that suffered horrendous injuries several years ago.

Those riders could not avoid seeing the flags where they were. They were being waved vigorously. The individual riders bear sole responsibility for anything that happens after they pass that flag.
hellion
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6/4/2017 4:17am
I came here to bust on the flaggers too. But after reading through this my opinion has changed. The riders need new rules about what to do under yellow. Wheels on the ground should be part of the change. Nobody should be racing through yellow, especially over a blind jump.
6/4/2017 4:46am
Did the flagger know who he gave up his flag too? I hope he did, because I'm not just letting someone take my flag. lol
Jbulz
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6/4/2017 4:57am
cmotodad wrote:
The ama has strict flagging rules. They do not want you anywhere near the track. You are given very specific areas to stay within. And yes...
The ama has strict flagging rules. They do not want you anywhere near the track. You are given very specific areas to stay within. And yes, many of those guys evidently have not ridden at all. I have flagged many SX events and it is not much fun.
What do the rules say about giving your flag to a bystander?
wardy
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6/4/2017 4:57am
This is what you get for allowing the YELLOW FLAG to MEAN NOTHING.

Sorry folks. but if there is a yellow flag riders need to slow the hell down and go past that area SLOWLY. NOt this "let them know there is an incident bullsh*t. It started a while ago and we are reaping what we sow.

it sure the hell isn't the flaggers fault. and to see this posted this way is crap.

in the one video there was no less then 3 flaggers waving flags and riders are still hitting the downed bike? THe reason is you may as well wave a stick at them as they don't slow down and they don't stop racing.

this policy should have never been watered down much like many other things have been in the 'name of racing" it will just get riders, flaggers, etc hurt.

Next we will start "blaming" the rider for falling in the wrong spot.
Crush
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6/4/2017 5:07am
wardy wrote:
This is what you get for allowing the YELLOW FLAG to MEAN NOTHING. Sorry folks. but if there is a yellow flag riders need to slow...
This is what you get for allowing the YELLOW FLAG to MEAN NOTHING.

Sorry folks. but if there is a yellow flag riders need to slow the hell down and go past that area SLOWLY. NOt this "let them know there is an incident bullsh*t. It started a while ago and we are reaping what we sow.

it sure the hell isn't the flaggers fault. and to see this posted this way is crap.

in the one video there was no less then 3 flaggers waving flags and riders are still hitting the downed bike? THe reason is you may as well wave a stick at them as they don't slow down and they don't stop racing.

this policy should have never been watered down much like many other things have been in the 'name of racing" it will just get riders, flaggers, etc hurt.

Next we will start "blaming" the rider for falling in the wrong spot.
Agree.

There wasn't much slowing going on...

Having said that, the flaggers were fucking re-re's. Get out there and move the fuckers. Don't want to? Pay for admission like everyone else.
JustMX
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6/4/2017 6:39am
Crush wrote:
Agree. There wasn't much slowing going on... Having said that, the flaggers were fucking re-re's. Get out there and move the fuckers. Don't want to? Pay...
Agree.

There wasn't much slowing going on...

Having said that, the flaggers were fucking re-re's. Get out there and move the fuckers. Don't want to? Pay for admission like everyone else.
So, let's see if I understand this....

You agree that the riders were not slowing down for a waving yellow flag that is just a about impossible to miss, and your solution is for the flagger to step out in front of them......

I ask again, which way was the flagger supposed to direct them... to the right side of the bike on a 3' strip, towards the rider waving his arms, or invent some kind of signal that he hopes the riders will translate as " bike on one side, rider trying to cross on the other"

It was a complicated situation made worse by it happening on a blind jump that also had a corner. The riders were actually hitting the jump in the middle and landing on the outside. Plessinger actually made it worse by waving his hands over his head so the riders saw him first and must have assumed that was where the problem was. The one thing that would have made the entire thing much worse was a flagger getting hit and knocked forwards on the track adding to the obstructions on the blind side of the jump.

While it was a sucky situation for plessinger, he crashed and added to the confusion. What if he had taken the same chance you are asking the flaggers to take and trusted that the riders would use caution when they see a waving flag? He also could have gone up the hill lime he ended up doing and crossed the track, then the flaggers would have had a clear choice to direct the riders.

As it ended up, nobody got hurt, including plessinger. Calling the flaggers asshats and retarded is silly. It is always easy to sit on the couch watching it repeatedly and play coulda/shoulda/would but to blame the flaggers for ap having to wait and his bike getting hit when they did exactly the one thing they could do is wrong.

The only true remedy would have been for the riders to actually use CAUTION.
DoctorJD
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6/4/2017 7:15am
lostboy819 wrote:
Exactly. When you see them heading for the blind jump there are three flaggers waving their flags and then two more and the riders dont even...
Exactly. When you see them heading for the blind jump there are three flaggers waving their flags and then two more and the riders dont even slow down,what does Plessinger think they should stop the race so he can get back in it without losing a position ? if you fall in a corner you can get up and only lose a few spots , you crash where he did ,you wont get going again until everyone is past. Canard pulled the same crap a few years ago,he falls on a blind jump then waves his arms like a madman thinking the oncoming riders can figure out what he is doing. If riders dont slow down for 5 flaggers then they deserve what ever comes their way. This is why flashing yellow lights wont work either because the riders dont give a shit , that is until they hit a downed rider then they will bitch about flaggers.

Ant the dip shit who took the flag and stood in the middle of the track he is lucky he didn't get nailed then maybe he would have figured it out, what a moron.
That idiot was Nick Wey. I think he has an idea what to do.
Crush
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6/4/2017 7:24am
JustMX wrote:
So, let's see if I understand this.... You agree that the riders were not slowing down for a waving yellow flag that is just a about...
So, let's see if I understand this....

You agree that the riders were not slowing down for a waving yellow flag that is just a about impossible to miss, and your solution is for the flagger to step out in front of them......

I ask again, which way was the flagger supposed to direct them... to the right side of the bike on a 3' strip, towards the rider waving his arms, or invent some kind of signal that he hopes the riders will translate as " bike on one side, rider trying to cross on the other"

It was a complicated situation made worse by it happening on a blind jump that also had a corner. The riders were actually hitting the jump in the middle and landing on the outside. Plessinger actually made it worse by waving his hands over his head so the riders saw him first and must have assumed that was where the problem was. The one thing that would have made the entire thing much worse was a flagger getting hit and knocked forwards on the track adding to the obstructions on the blind side of the jump.

While it was a sucky situation for plessinger, he crashed and added to the confusion. What if he had taken the same chance you are asking the flaggers to take and trusted that the riders would use caution when they see a waving flag? He also could have gone up the hill lime he ended up doing and crossed the track, then the flaggers would have had a clear choice to direct the riders.

As it ended up, nobody got hurt, including plessinger. Calling the flaggers asshats and retarded is silly. It is always easy to sit on the couch watching it repeatedly and play coulda/shoulda/would but to blame the flaggers for ap having to wait and his bike getting hit when they did exactly the one thing they could do is wrong.

The only true remedy would have been for the riders to actually use CAUTION.
Mate, if you, the flaggers, or anyone else don't understand what was required there to prevent a further issue I don't know what to tell you.

Simple as that.
RhinoRider
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6/4/2017 7:50am
If the flagger is in the middle of the track, oncoming riders have at least a little knowledge to stay left or right of the middle.


JustMX
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6/4/2017 8:24am
Crush wrote:
Mate, if you, the flaggers, or anyone else don't understand what was required there to prevent a further issue I don't know what to tell you...
Mate, if you, the flaggers, or anyone else don't understand what was required there to prevent a further issue I don't know what to tell you.

Simple as that.
Mate, I absolutely understand what was required to prevent a further issue.

You even acknowledge it in your post when you said
"agree,
There wasn't much slowing going on..."
DC
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6/4/2017 8:42am
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action. Buck up put professionally trained flaggers together. They would go race to race. How scary and embarrassing. It's amazing how much progress is made forward yet there are still things like this amateur hour that make this sport hard to take seriously anymore. There should be no excuses from Davey on this and a crew should be put together from here on out. Get on it.

The flagger in the red and blue shirt was an MX Sports employee, part of the crew that goes to every race. The other flagger was a track employee, flags every race there. Nick Wey is a former professional racer. Aaron Plessinger is a professional racer. The other 39 guys on the track were professional racers. No one was there "just to get close to the action" but it was a tough situation, for many reasons.

I was not at the race, so I watched and screamed at my computer for the flaggers to slow the riders down like everyone else probably did, and Nick Wey thankfully did in person. The riders were not paying attention to the flags and certainly not slowing down enough. We will be reviewing this photo tomorrow with the entire crew and trying to figure out what could have been done to make the situation safer, and not add any danger as well (which sometimes happens when a flagger gets out on the track in a different situation). We are on it and will do our best to learn from this and prevent it from happening moving forward. I've already been in contact with Jim Downey of the Brett Downey Safety Foundation this morning on some ideas.

This was also the same spot where we came up with the Wheels on the Ground flag after Austin Stroupe's bike got run over back in 2010, but the jump changed and they moved the WOG flags down to the double before it. I'm glad Aaron is okay, glad Nick was there to jump in and glad no one got hurt, though it was painful to watch.

DC
Racer X

6/4/2017 8:50am
Since the yellow flags are so ignored, who in their right mind would roll that jump for fear of the next guy landing on top of them. Someone is going to have to be made an example of before it gets better.
Crush
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6/4/2017 8:52am
JustMX wrote:
Mate, I absolutely understand what was required to prevent a further issue. You even acknowledge it in your post when you said "agree, There wasn't much...
Mate, I absolutely understand what was required to prevent a further issue.

You even acknowledge it in your post when you said
"agree,
There wasn't much slowing going on..."
It's the same as any other law man. You're not gonna stop people doing the wrong thing, especially in a competition situation... You should however, make an effort. The flagger did fuck all and nothing more.
kkawboy14
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6/4/2017 9:07am
One of the top proofs these people are clueless when it comes to rider safety!
lostboy819
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6/4/2017 9:09am
Charper732 wrote:
Just a thought, but maybe if they put up those strobe lights(like they have on the triples in SX) on certain blind jumps and corners and...
Just a thought, but maybe if they put up those strobe lights(like they have on the triples in SX) on certain blind jumps and corners and only turn on the side that has a down bike/rider so it indicates to other riders that they need to go to the opposite side of the track...if that makes sense.
The riders dont slow down for flaggers so why would they slow down for flashing yellow lights ? As long as you can pass under yellow then no one will slow down because if you do you will get passed.
lostboy819
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6/4/2017 9:18am
DC wrote:
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action...
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action. Buck up put professionally trained flaggers together. They would go race to race. How scary and embarrassing. It's amazing how much progress is made forward yet there are still things like this amateur hour that make this sport hard to take seriously anymore. There should be no excuses from Davey on this and a crew should be put together from here on out. Get on it.

The flagger in the red and blue shirt was an MX Sports employee, part of the crew that goes to every race. The other flagger was a track employee, flags every race there. Nick Wey is a former professional racer. Aaron Plessinger is a professional racer. The other 39 guys on the track were professional racers. No one was there "just to get close to the action" but it was a tough situation, for many reasons.

I was not at the race, so I watched and screamed at my computer for the flaggers to slow the riders down like everyone else probably did, and Nick Wey thankfully did in person. The riders were not paying attention to the flags and certainly not slowing down enough. We will be reviewing this photo tomorrow with the entire crew and trying to figure out what could have been done to make the situation safer, and not add any danger as well (which sometimes happens when a flagger gets out on the track in a different situation). We are on it and will do our best to learn from this and prevent it from happening moving forward. I've already been in contact with Jim Downey of the Brett Downey Safety Foundation this morning on some ideas.

This was also the same spot where we came up with the Wheels on the Ground flag after Austin Stroupe's bike got run over back in 2010, but the jump changed and they moved the WOG flags down to the double before it. I'm glad Aaron is okay, glad Nick was there to jump in and glad no one got hurt, though it was painful to watch.

DC
Racer X

You can see the flaggers going crazy with the flags long before the jump, how the hell are they going to slow the riders down with a flag when the riders ignore them and can still race and pass and get passed under yellow? Time to start putting some blame on the riders and not pile on the flaggers every time riders do stupid shit. Canard did the same thing a while back, he crashes and then directs others right into his downed bike because he is waving his arms like a mad man. They kicked Nic out of the infield for that and good for them because if he would have got hit by a bike then everyone would really pile on these guys for doing a tough job.
Graybeard
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6/4/2017 9:21am
wardy wrote:
This is what you get for allowing the YELLOW FLAG to MEAN NOTHING. Sorry folks. but if there is a yellow flag riders need to slow...
This is what you get for allowing the YELLOW FLAG to MEAN NOTHING.

Sorry folks. but if there is a yellow flag riders need to slow the hell down and go past that area SLOWLY. NOt this "let them know there is an incident bullsh*t. It started a while ago and we are reaping what we sow.

it sure the hell isn't the flaggers fault. and to see this posted this way is crap.

in the one video there was no less then 3 flaggers waving flags and riders are still hitting the downed bike? THe reason is you may as well wave a stick at them as they don't slow down and they don't stop racing.

this policy should have never been watered down much like many other things have been in the 'name of racing" it will just get riders, flaggers, etc hurt.

Next we will start "blaming" the rider for falling in the wrong spot.
THANK YOU!!!!! The problem is the yellow flag now means NOTHING AT ALL! Go ahead, pass under yellow, screw the fact that someone is down or something on the track! Such a simple solution, but for some unknown reason, logic escapes the guys running this sport. Until you get the yellow flag to actually mean something, and actually do something about riders blatantly ignoring it and still racing / passing like is now all the rage, expect much more of this crap!
lostboy819
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6/4/2017 9:22am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 9:30am
DoctorJD wrote:
That idiot was Nick Wey. I think he has an idea what to do.
Yep, they kicked him out of the infield too for doing it. gee I wonder why? Just because he can ride fast dont mean he is smart.
lostboy819
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6/4/2017 9:27am
Stationary yellow flag = ride with caution Waved yellow = slow down wheels to remain on the ground. If a rider is caught gaining on the...
Stationary yellow flag = ride with caution
Waved yellow = slow down wheels to remain on the ground.
If a rider is caught gaining on the waved yellow flag take his points. I can guarantee after a few riders lose their points they will get the message.
yep, right now all a yellow flag means is that if you do slow down you will get passed so why even wave them.
I would discourage everyone from signing up to flag a national because you will get burned at the stake for doing your job by the internet police.
6/4/2017 9:28am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2017 9:34am
DC wrote:
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action...
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action. Buck up put professionally trained flaggers together. They would go race to race. How scary and embarrassing. It's amazing how much progress is made forward yet there are still things like this amateur hour that make this sport hard to take seriously anymore. There should be no excuses from Davey on this and a crew should be put together from here on out. Get on it.

The flagger in the red and blue shirt was an MX Sports employee, part of the crew that goes to every race. The other flagger was a track employee, flags every race there. Nick Wey is a former professional racer. Aaron Plessinger is a professional racer. The other 39 guys on the track were professional racers. No one was there "just to get close to the action" but it was a tough situation, for many reasons.

I was not at the race, so I watched and screamed at my computer for the flaggers to slow the riders down like everyone else probably did, and Nick Wey thankfully did in person. The riders were not paying attention to the flags and certainly not slowing down enough. We will be reviewing this photo tomorrow with the entire crew and trying to figure out what could have been done to make the situation safer, and not add any danger as well (which sometimes happens when a flagger gets out on the track in a different situation). We are on it and will do our best to learn from this and prevent it from happening moving forward. I've already been in contact with Jim Downey of the Brett Downey Safety Foundation this morning on some ideas.

This was also the same spot where we came up with the Wheels on the Ground flag after Austin Stroupe's bike got run over back in 2010, but the jump changed and they moved the WOG flags down to the double before it. I'm glad Aaron is okay, glad Nick was there to jump in and glad no one got hurt, though it was painful to watch.

DC
Racer X

So can we throw suggestions your way instead of bashing flaggers?
I have worked at a track over the last several years, everything from flagging to staging and even announcing.

For flaggers on the ground I think a lightweight tuff block with an arrow on it would be an easy fix.

Using this as an example the flaggers could have placed the tuff block on the face of the jump with the arrow pointing to which side of the track offered more space for the riders.

Obviously that would have still left AP having to wait for the pack to go buy but he also could have made his way to the top of the jump and made it across the track when safe and feel confident that no one was going to land on him once he made it to his bike.

The tuff block serves as both a visual and physical barrier. Most riders will play chicken with a person waving a flag knowing that they will win. A tuff block in the way will not move and the rider has no choice but to pick an alternate route. Thats where the arrow will serve as a visual aid and let them know which side to go to.

Arrows should be printed on every side so the person placing it can easily see that he has it pointed in the right direction.

Hut
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6/4/2017 9:32am
I'm no genius but it sounds like they need to buy more "Wheels on the Ground" Flags and enforce the rule strictly. Plus a review of the yellow flag rule seems like a good idea. Yellow flags are essentially useless in my humble opinion.
stillwelding
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6/4/2017 10:14am
DC wrote:
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action...
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action. Buck up put professionally trained flaggers together. They would go race to race. How scary and embarrassing. It's amazing how much progress is made forward yet there are still things like this amateur hour that make this sport hard to take seriously anymore. There should be no excuses from Davey on this and a crew should be put together from here on out. Get on it.

The flagger in the red and blue shirt was an MX Sports employee, part of the crew that goes to every race. The other flagger was a track employee, flags every race there. Nick Wey is a former professional racer. Aaron Plessinger is a professional racer. The other 39 guys on the track were professional racers. No one was there "just to get close to the action" but it was a tough situation, for many reasons.

I was not at the race, so I watched and screamed at my computer for the flaggers to slow the riders down like everyone else probably did, and Nick Wey thankfully did in person. The riders were not paying attention to the flags and certainly not slowing down enough. We will be reviewing this photo tomorrow with the entire crew and trying to figure out what could have been done to make the situation safer, and not add any danger as well (which sometimes happens when a flagger gets out on the track in a different situation). We are on it and will do our best to learn from this and prevent it from happening moving forward. I've already been in contact with Jim Downey of the Brett Downey Safety Foundation this morning on some ideas.

This was also the same spot where we came up with the Wheels on the Ground flag after Austin Stroupe's bike got run over back in 2010, but the jump changed and they moved the WOG flags down to the double before it. I'm glad Aaron is okay, glad Nick was there to jump in and glad no one got hurt, though it was painful to watch.

DC
Racer X

Great Davey. Fran says hello.
smoothies862
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6/4/2017 10:26am
just make yellow full roll. slow speed. no jumping or passing. if they don't. fines,pts etc. simple.
ns503
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6/4/2017 10:29am
DC wrote:
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action...
This is entirely on Davey. This is a professional sport. There should be zero for hire flaggers doing this just to get close to the action. Buck up put professionally trained flaggers together. They would go race to race. How scary and embarrassing. It's amazing how much progress is made forward yet there are still things like this amateur hour that make this sport hard to take seriously anymore. There should be no excuses from Davey on this and a crew should be put together from here on out. Get on it.

The flagger in the red and blue shirt was an MX Sports employee, part of the crew that goes to every race. The other flagger was a track employee, flags every race there. Nick Wey is a former professional racer. Aaron Plessinger is a professional racer. The other 39 guys on the track were professional racers. No one was there "just to get close to the action" but it was a tough situation, for many reasons.

I was not at the race, so I watched and screamed at my computer for the flaggers to slow the riders down like everyone else probably did, and Nick Wey thankfully did in person. The riders were not paying attention to the flags and certainly not slowing down enough. We will be reviewing this photo tomorrow with the entire crew and trying to figure out what could have been done to make the situation safer, and not add any danger as well (which sometimes happens when a flagger gets out on the track in a different situation). We are on it and will do our best to learn from this and prevent it from happening moving forward. I've already been in contact with Jim Downey of the Brett Downey Safety Foundation this morning on some ideas.

This was also the same spot where we came up with the Wheels on the Ground flag after Austin Stroupe's bike got run over back in 2010, but the jump changed and they moved the WOG flags down to the double before it. I'm glad Aaron is okay, glad Nick was there to jump in and glad no one got hurt, though it was painful to watch.

DC
Racer X

I think this is mostly on the riders ignoring the flags - seemed like there were lots waving.

Are flaggers actually supposed to go out on the track like Nick did? I don't think I would be wanting that job if so - and the heat of the moment was already mostly past by the time he did what he did. He likely wouldn't have done that with a pile of bikes coming at him & not doing what they were supposed to be doing. Not sure him jumping in when he did actually helped much.

Plessinger also wasn't helping much with the waving around he was doing - that would send riders away from him, which was into the downed bike.

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