What PED's are recommended for improved performance/recovery and healing?

RCF
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8/23/2019 2:44pm
MXOHIOGUY - how long were you doing the TRT? gjbruny - it sounds like you are just getting started and are on cloud 9. I think...
MXOHIOGUY - how long were you doing the TRT?

gjbruny - it sounds like you are just getting started and are on cloud 9. I think you got a lot of guys excited until they read MXOHIOGUY's post.

I would like to hear from more long term TRT patients who've been taking shots for several years.


For now, this is the only options that seems "safe" for boosting T levels:

Here are 8 evidence-based ways to increase testosterone levels naturally:
1. Exercise and Lift Weights.
2. Eat Protein, Fat and Carbs.
3. Minimize Stress and Cortisol Levels.
4. Get Some Sun or Take a Vitamin D Supplement.
5. Take Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.
6. Get Plenty of Restful, High-Quality Sleep.
7. Take Some of These Natural Testosterone Boosters
8. Follow a Healthy Lifestyle and Avoid Estrogen-like Compounds

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/8-ways-to-boost-testosterone
gjbruny wrote:
you are right... i am right at one year and keep feeling better. i hope that i don't go through what MXOHIOGUY has gone through. having...
you are right... i am right at one year and keep feeling better. i hope that i don't go through what MXOHIOGUY has gone through.

having said that, my buddy that urged me to get tested has been on it for either 10 or 11 years and still feels amazing and looks and acts amazing. he is 57 and if you were to put a bag over his head you would think he was in his mid 20s. 2 years ago he was ranked #4 in the world in his age bracket in crossfit (don't get me started.... im not a fan of crossfit and he has had several injuries from it). the guy is a beast and prior to starting felt like i described and had the typical "dad body." he and i elk hunt every year and he has zero problems keeping up with myself and some of our younger buddies. and we hunt STEEP country.

as mentioned above, i will be on this for the rest of my life unless i choose to come off of it. but to be totally honest, if i continue to feel half as good as i do now, it will be a very small price to pay. now mind you, i don't feel like superman like i did while using steroids. i just feel rejuvenated... exited for each day like i did when i was a younger man.

not sure what program MXOHIOGUY was on but i have to take an injection once/week. the half life of testosterone cypianate is 8 days and peak hormone levels are 48hrs post injection (so when i do my labs they are done as close to 48hrs after my shot as possible.... i am usually at 50-51hrs).

the europeans have a testosterone that has twice the half life as what we have so they are down to injections once every 2 weeks with the same results. they have been using it for quite some time. it should be through the FDA within the next few years so that we can start using it in the states.

i haven't heard of any docs prescribing growth hormone for TRT but i do know that the real stuff is insanely expensive.

the only drugs that i have to take to combat test is the anastrozol which is the drug that regulates how much test gets converted to estrogen. my doc has patients in their 90s that have been on it for a very long time and the anastrozol is all they have ever had to take. trust me, i did my research and asked a lot of questions before i decided to take the plunge. after my initial visit with him, it was well over a month of questions and emails (and texts,) before i felt comfortable committing to something that i would very well be on for the rest of my life.

low fertility while on TRT is for real but to boost your fertility you start clomid 6 weeks before coming off of TRT if you want to have children. though i do feel that most men will be old enough by the time they start thinking about TRT that they are probably past the point of wanting to have more children. there are exceptions and it was something my doc and i went over.

there is 70+ years of long term research on test and MXOHIOGUY is one of the first i have ever heard of that had a poor experience using it. i really feel bad for him.

the doc that i have IS really good and is VERY up to date and yes, he is semi expensive (800/year.... to me that is cheap considering all the crap at GNC i could be buying "trying" to feel like me again). he is also very good with nutrition and does customized nutrition plans for any of his patients that want help with that (no extra charge).

my sex drive is fantastic.... but certainly no different than when i was in my early 20s. my wife loves it but she also loves sex so there is that. it was "insane" when i was using steroids.

i haven't had any problems getting it at the local walgreens. ever

yep, nuts are about 1/3 their normal size. ive never had to take viagra but i have to imagine this is what those erections feel like. i knock stuff off the nightstand in the mornings. lol no pain for me with the smaller testies. if anything, i had just told my wife that i have had less issues with my bike seat nut tapping me this year when riding. smaller targets lol


i have had the exact opposite effect of packing on pounds. the test works/helps regulate other hormones in the body including cortisol levels. one of my complaints was is was harder for me to lose weight as i got older. now, it falls off. i had a shoulder injury while surfing this last winter. i took 5 weeks off to recover. if anything, i maintained more muscle and gained less fat then prior to TRT..

ED is NOT a problem with testosterone replacement IF your estrogen levels are properly controlled. you have to have some estrogen but too much is no bueno and too little is no bueno. 24pg is kind of the magic number and i hover around 23-26 on my tests. took a few dose changes to get me dialed. my buddy that is also on TRT is also at those levels though he did have to have a slight increase in his anastrozol 2 years ago as he started to get into the low 30s and our doc didn't like that.

MXOHIOGUY is right... everyone's levels are different. luckily for me i had my blood tested at the advise of my doc friend prior to starting steroids. at 20 years old i was 1040something. i also had labs done 6 weeks after each cycle i had done to ensure that my endogenous testosterone was back of to baseline and i was always above 950. i had a blood test when i was 33 ( i can't remember what for but i still had those records). i was 774. to be honest, i still felt really good at 33 years old. it was the year after i moved into my current home that i started feeling "off" which would have put me at 35/36ish.

sounds like a good doc is the key to all of this.

my brother inlaw who is now in his early 40s has watched how i have transformed back into my old self and has been feeling much of how i used to (and has complained for years about it). 3 months ago he decided to get tested and was also very low. he opted for the clomid option instead of injections. he was told it could take up to 6 months to feel any benefits but my sis said she is already noticing his mood and energy levels improving significantly especially with how he interacts with his 4 kids.

again, i am only 13 months into this so take it for what its worth. i just know that its life changing. so much so that i told my wife if i was given a choice to feel how i felt or i could do TRT but it would cost me 5 years of my life, i would chose TRT all day long. i'm excited for each day again. i am me again. also, watching my much older friend thrive for well over 10 years on TRT is ultimately what led me to look into it.


i hope im not coming off as some TRT salesman. like i said, i was very embarrassed to tell anyone about it at first. but it has changed my life so much that i almost feel compelled to tell people about it. you don't realize how shitty you felt until you start to feel like you again.


Black diesel bomber.... i forgot to mention i literally live your list that you mentioned with the exception of taking test boosters (the doc said that stuff is literal snake oil). i have a 1000sqft gym in my home. to say i live healthy is an understatement. but like i said, you have to boost your test levels significantly to feel any difference because your test helps regulate so many other hormones. like i said, when i was in my early 30s my test was roughly 65% of what i was at 20 and i still felt great. i wish i knew where my personal threshold was where i started to feel not so great
Wow that was a really long read $800 for the whole year sounds really cheap. Is your insurance picking up some of the cost I thought insurance companies didn't covered things like this.
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Timo_2824
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8/23/2019 3:18pm
People talking about brain fog in your 30's, how many hours of sleep are you getting per night? I think that's a major issue now a days with led lights and screens everywhere. Trying to get my wife to put her damn phone down and go to sleep is a loosing battle...
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Nighttrain
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8/23/2019 4:09pm
WCRider wrote:
The peppers are a good testo booster.

How many eggs a week do you eat ?

try spirulina.

I grow the peppers. The cayenne are fantastic for pain relief and much easier on the stomach than Ibuprofen on a daily basis.

Eggs...probably average 6 per week. I eat a lot of local fish.

At 52 yrs old I go all out when lifting, mtb/road cycling, dirt bike riding, whatever. WTF is there to save for at this age? Go hard and deal with the aftermath tomorrow.

This stuff seems to help some with natural testo production according to studies. I’m undecided:


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The Shop

RCF
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8/23/2019 4:19pm
WCRider wrote:
The peppers are a good testo booster.

How many eggs a week do you eat ?

try spirulina.

Nighttrain wrote:
I grow the peppers. The cayenne are fantastic for pain relief and much easier on the stomach than Ibuprofen on a daily basis. Eggs...probably average 6...
I grow the peppers. The cayenne are fantastic for pain relief and much easier on the stomach than Ibuprofen on a daily basis.

Eggs...probably average 6 per week. I eat a lot of local fish.

At 52 yrs old I go all out when lifting, mtb/road cycling, dirt bike riding, whatever. WTF is there to save for at this age? Go hard and deal with the aftermath tomorrow.

This stuff seems to help some with natural testo production according to studies. I’m undecided:


Save your money the only thing that increases testosterone is testosterone other than prohormones there's nothing you can buy over the counter that will do anything


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WCRider
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8/23/2019 11:54pm
Nighttrain wrote:
I grow the peppers. The cayenne are fantastic for pain relief and much easier on the stomach than Ibuprofen on a daily basis. Eggs...probably average 6...
I grow the peppers. The cayenne are fantastic for pain relief and much easier on the stomach than Ibuprofen on a daily basis.

Eggs...probably average 6 per week. I eat a lot of local fish.

At 52 yrs old I go all out when lifting, mtb/road cycling, dirt bike riding, whatever. WTF is there to save for at this age? Go hard and deal with the aftermath tomorrow.

This stuff seems to help some with natural testo production according to studies. I’m undecided:


Eat a lots of good fish is excellent. Just be careful with big fish, a lots of mercure in. Personnaly I eat a lots of sardine.

Step it up your amouth of lipids is a good thing, this is a good testo booster.

I eat 4 whole eggs by...day !
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VetMX.com
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8/24/2019 7:31am
MXOHIOGUY wrote:
Arimidex right now. Starting HCG and Clomid next week to help jump start my natural production.
You should have begun the HCG before you started to wind down. You are experiencing the classic "Bounce" right now. Make sure your nipples are not getting puffy or sore.
Your natural production has not started back up yet. The HCG is taken from pregnant women's piss and it will kick start your nads right back up doing 1cc every other day for a week or 2.

I have been on HRT for +20 years now. I cycle off for 2-3 months a year to keep my testies functioning and not looking raisin like and yes, you feel like shit for a while and you wake up at 4AM unable to sleep,you will be moody like a woman about to start her period and just not feel content, no dreams and no morning erections to crack diamonds with.
The main benefit is you are doing blood work every 3-6 months so there is a good chance you will find something early if something was to present.
It is a good idea to donate blood once a month to keep your hemocrit levels down as it can cause a stroke to be pumping thick blood with too many red blood cells.

Every man should have their T levels checked after 35 years old. It is only a $70 dollar test and you might be surprised and check available testosterone and estrogen, progesterone, not just your T levels because if you are microwaving food, drinking from plastic bottles, ETC, your estrogen levels are probably high and that will bind the testosterone from use.

This is a good topic and the previous poster is also very knowledgeable.

Your mileage may vary.
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8/24/2019 8:13am
VetMX.com wrote:
You should have begun the HCG before you started to wind down. You are experiencing the classic "Bounce" right now. Make sure your nipples are not...
You should have begun the HCG before you started to wind down. You are experiencing the classic "Bounce" right now. Make sure your nipples are not getting puffy or sore.
Your natural production has not started back up yet. The HCG is taken from pregnant women's piss and it will kick start your nads right back up doing 1cc every other day for a week or 2.

I have been on HRT for +20 years now. I cycle off for 2-3 months a year to keep my testies functioning and not looking raisin like and yes, you feel like shit for a while and you wake up at 4AM unable to sleep,you will be moody like a woman about to start her period and just not feel content, no dreams and no morning erections to crack diamonds with.
The main benefit is you are doing blood work every 3-6 months so there is a good chance you will find something early if something was to present.
It is a good idea to donate blood once a month to keep your hemocrit levels down as it can cause a stroke to be pumping thick blood with too many red blood cells.

Every man should have their T levels checked after 35 years old. It is only a $70 dollar test and you might be surprised and check available testosterone and estrogen, progesterone, not just your T levels because if you are microwaving food, drinking from plastic bottles, ETC, your estrogen levels are probably high and that will bind the testosterone from use.

This is a good topic and the previous poster is also very knowledgeable.

Your mileage may vary.
Great post. Very solid info in here
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RCF
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8/24/2019 10:48am
This is the guy that wrote the book on steroid use before him there was no PCT he's the one that came up with the idea of using HCG to wean off Cycles
alycium102
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5/30/2022 10:38pm
I’ve been on testosterone cypionate since January, 100mg a week and although I feel amazing, I get some of the worst arm pump I have ever gotten in my life. Honestly will probably stop taking it for that reason
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kawasa84
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5/31/2022 1:54am
Not sure why anyone would need to use a needle anymore to regulate and inject themselves for TRT as its much easier to just go the "Pellet" route.
I'm close to 57 yrs old. I'm one of the few people I know who has had titanium bracket and screws and a small titanium disc with holes in it between my C4-C5 vertebrae and some S1-S2 or something on my back as well. This was a fusion surgery with some hardware. I was riding moto 4 1/2 months later.

I've had both left and right full reconstruction of bicep, labrum and rotator cuff (both shoulders)
After these 2 surgeries, back to moto in 6 1/2 months. Went to ONE rehabilitation therapy session for both shoulders total. Yes, ONE. I rehabbed both my shoulders on my own. Had 100% full range of motion within 9 weeks. My surgeon commented he had never seen my range of motion that quickly, and never believed I could do it on my own on my first shoulder, but did on my 2nd. Since this, I have actually instructed some patients on what I did for at home rehab.

December 21st, of 2021, full knee replacement of right knee. Not knee repair (Had reconstruction with cadaver PCL ligament replacement in 2006) but a knee replacement. I was back to moto on March 26th, 2022. 4 months later.
Went to 4 rehabilitation sessions only. Did the rest of my entire recovery rehabilitation on my own.

I ride moto as much as my busy schedule allows. Typically 25-26 times per year. I push hard when riding, clear 90% of the jumps at the tracks I frequent in the North Texas area.

I see my wifes Gyno for my TRT. He's been doing it for over 20 years. He does 100's of women patients of his, as well as many male patients for this. He does work with many bodybuilders.

I do the Pellet therapy. I keep my levels around 800-900. If your an older vet rider, have had some injuries to your body, and want to continue moto. Which I love so much, I don't know if I can ever quit.
This is a huge benefit for me.
I heal very fast, but I don't really eat right, nor do I really exercise much.

It works well for me. I know it benefits my. If you older guys have questions on how I continue to ride after my surgeries, and how I rehabbed myself, ask away
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Moto_Geek
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5/31/2022 5:56am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2022 5:59am
99.9% of us will never face a pee test, so where and how much for the good stuff? Asking for a friend.

This is not much of a plug as what I use that works a miracle. I'm in my 40's and in my experience all I've need is supplements so far. L-Glutamine in the Recovery has been my friend. I don't get completely sore muscles after a long day of riding in 1-2 days and seem to skip the painful soreness stage of heavy exercise and major speed up to recovery so I can play hard again/sooner. Don't worry, I haven;t had the need to throw all my safety equipment away when I ride so think that some of Ryno's personal training speed secrets are more of an outcome of coaching then his products..

https://rynopower.com/collections/after/products/recovery-post-workout-…

But I am finding out a lot of men over 50 been taking Testosterone. I'm specifically interested in preventing dementia in my later years which studies showing this is a big help.

In addition to causing physical changes, having low levels of testosterone can affect you on an emotional level. The condition can lead to feelings of sadness or depression. Some people have trouble with memory and concentration and experience lowered motivation and self-confidence.
mvd61
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5/31/2022 6:17am
Cjc-1295/ipamorelin and bpc-157
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Big Lenny
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5/31/2022 7:46am
bvm111 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/22/367855/s1200_56208A9F_E889_4C9C_944C_1F4D544BDC80.jpg[/img]

Laughing
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TrailMaker
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6/1/2022 7:15pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2022 7:21pm
My experience....

#1 If you can buy it over the counter, it won't do anything significant.

#2 You will get the best results if you do ALL you can naturally. When you plateau THEN you hit the PEDs. This means you work your ass of for YEARS AND YEARS...then go enhanced. You need to hit the wall over and over before you hit the needle. If you just jump to the needle and do not know how to eat and train, you are just wasting good juice. You do not really know how to train till you truly try every different way of training, and still are stuck at a plateau.

#3 You had better be OK with needles. Stay away from larger amounts of orals. They are Alpha-Alkylated and hard on the liver. As some mentioned...there are new alternatives to needles...such as long release Test pellets. But the idea is the same.

#4 Stay with the basics...Testosterone and HGH for muscle recovery, strength, and fat loss. HGH is $ though.

#4a Test compounds/pellets can be "esterized", so they release over time after injection. The most common/best Test injection compound is Sustanon, which is a blend of 4 different esters that give a good even release over a long time periods. One shot per week of Sust will give you a smooth even test boost.

#4b HGH can not be esterized, so you need to inject way more often. Serious users inject daily.

#5 You will not put on dramatic amounts of muscle mass unless you consume the required calories to build muscle mass (consistent caloric surplus). If you put down say 5,000-6,000 calories a day, and know how to train and recover, the results from even a moderate "starter cycle" can be mind blowing. We are talking 30#+ of muscle mass...and keeping 20-25# after you come off. So your caloric intake should be based on your goals.

#6 If you also want to strongly boost your aerobic capacity, things get more sketchy. Now you are talking blood doping or EPO. While you can find "TRT docs" on every corner to help you with Test and HGH regimes, you will be more on your own with regards to boosting aerobic capacity with PEDs. I have no experience with this stuff. Seems MUCH more risky than hormonal boosting. You are directly boosting red blood cell levels in a way that bypasses your bodies normal checks and balances. Injecting "too much" test will not kill you. Injection "too much" EPO can.

With regards to HGH and Test, it is comical that 25 years ago you were a criminal for even talking about this. But as soon as MDs started to recognize there were millions of flabby middle aged men with fat wallets looking for a boost, suddenly it became AOK. Once Docs realized they could make big money, everything changed. I know one orthopedic surgeon who used to be this skinny gym rat with no clue how to work out. He had this great big bushy head of curly hair. Then he "discovered" TRT, and today is he 40# heavier, bald as a cue ball, jacked, and is now a TRT Doc...no more surgery. Better money pushing juice.

"Testosterone replacement therapy" and "steroids" are THE EXACT SAME THING. Same compounds, same needles, same side effects. Also, many in the "recreational steroid using community" still know as much or more than many docs. Medicine after all is highly empirical, and there were hundreds of thousands of serious users (many of them very smart) for decades while the mainstream medical position was that steroids offered "no competitive advantage".

Also, one thing that many do not know, even most Docs, is that at least as far as AAS/Test/etc goes, you do not need to go on full time for the rest of your life. Most TRT regimes today do exactly that, which I am not so sure is a good idea. When you go on full time forever, it causes you own hormone production to cease. The longer you stay on for, the more your natural hormone system shut down. I believe the safer approach is to cycle on and off...say 1-2 cycles per year if you want to stay on long term.

Personally, I did ONE cycle ever in my life. The results were insane.
12 Weeks
500 mg/week Sustanon 250
200 mg/week Equipoise (Boldenone undecylenate)
DBol - can't remember dosage - for first two weeks for a quick boost while the other levels were coming up.)
Arimidex when coming off to re-start natural test production

I went from a very solid 178# to 218# in 12 weeks while eating 5000-6000 Cals clean 6 days out of 7 per week day. No joke. Eating that much is damned HARD. I stabilized long term at 205-208#. I had to buy a whole new wardrobe. I kept working out hard for many many years, and kept that weight and strength. Got my BF down pretty low at one point...and was 195 with the same strength and muscle mass. This is a secret of most (all) elite game playing athletes. They have ALL done a cycle or two. And because they are experts in training or diet (or they can hire people who are), they get massive gains out of these one or two cycles..and they keep almost all of those gains their whole careers because they keep on training right. Just because you pass a drug test now...does not mean you are "natural". You can do a cycle or two, and never do it again, and get to a performance level you never ever would have been able to achieve "naturally". But you can claim you are clean, and no one can ever prove otherwise. I was stuck at 175#-180# for 3 years...and then went to 218# in 3 months, and kept most of it.

My issue eventually became that my body simply was not built to handle that much muscle mass. I was inflexible, bound up, developed tendonitis, even tore a large section of my vastus lateralis doing squats... I got frustrated with all the injuries and pain, and eventually went to far the other way. I stopped working out, I maintained a lot of the mass...but got softer than I care to admit.
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mxracer666
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6/1/2022 7:49pm
gjbruny wrote:
disclaimer.... this is going to be long winded. having said that, if you are in your late 30s or older this may be worth reading if...
disclaimer.... this is going to be long winded. having said that, if you are in your late 30s or older this may be worth reading if you have heard of or thought about hormone replacement.

another disclaimer... i have never smoked a cigarette, smoked weed, put a chew in my mouth or done any sort of drugs in my life..... except for the fact that i have taken PEDs (or steroids as we used to call it back in the day).

one last disclaimer.... i am not going to spell check anything so sorry if my spelling or punctuation pisses anyone off.... i know that really gets a few guys spooled up around here.

it started off from bodybuilding. right after high school i got into bodybuilding. i was always heavily into athletics but not gifted enough to take sports past high school. i was strong as an ox as a kid and some of my lifting records still stand at my high school some 26 years later. as i got into college i just focused on weights and about half way through my freshmen year i met a kid that was starting to compete as a bodybuilder. i was hooked. i loved the building of the body as well as the nutrition side of it. i competed 100% naturally for 2 years. however, within the first year i realized that most anyone that was competitive at any weight class was using something. there are very very very few people genetically gifted enough to compete and actually be competitive that are not using something. the heavier the weight class, the more they are using and the longer they have been using.

long story short, i was scared to death to use any "drug" and i therefore researched for over a year before i took anything. now back then, there weren't nearly the laws nor the stigma attached to steroids and i actually had a doc and a pharmacist (both were friends an NO.... they absolutely did not provide me with anything other than guidance as to what was "safe" and what was not as safe). i competed for another 3 years while using the drugs. in that time i went from a lean 165lbs (lean as in 6-8% fat.... not lean as in ready to step on stage) to 216lbs with roughly the same body fat. the largest i competed at was just under 193lbs which may not sound like much but i am 5'8" on a good day and the skin folds on my belly were as thin as the skin folds on my penis.... ripped was an understatement.

i stayed away from all oral drugs with the exception of fairly small doses of anavar. everything else was injectable (which is real fun for a guy that hates needles). the base drug for all bodybuilders is testosterone cypianate with the ananthate version being a close second only because the ananthate is painful. testosterone is 1:1 androgenic to anabolic. androgenic meaning it gives us men our manly attributes (thicker skin, facial/body hair deeper voices etc) and anabolic meaning constructive or building. the stronger anabolic drugs are 3:1 anabolic to androgenic. this is why they have the ability to put so much muscle on a person in a relatively short amount of time.

there was a ton to learn and i am glad i had the guidance of both a physician and a pharmacist. there is such a multitude of drugs out there and some can have some serious side effects. most of the guys in the gyms rely on "bro science" and came out with a lot of unwanted side effects. also, some drugs work differently and are used for different times during the bodybuilding season. for instance some drugs aromatize (or convert) to estrogen more than others. these are the drugs that are never used shortly before a competition because they cause subcutaneous water retention and make a person "smooth" or soft looking. others like trenbolone (mentioned above) have very little aromatase factors and are actually used pre-contest to give the person a much harder look.

they all have side effects... some almost not detectable and others are much more so. a steroid that most people have heard of is Decadurobolin or just "deca." super common in all sports. what you don't hear about that much is "deca dick" or the inability to have an erection. it happens with a number of the anabolics. one of the scariest has to do with red blood cell production. more specifically the increased red blood cell production. the more informed athletes that used PEDs get their blood tested at least every 6 months to ensure that their red blood cell counts are not to high. as your red blood cells increase, the viscosity of your blood increases. too high and you are primed for a stroke or heart attack as your blood gets too thick. i remember an interview with Lance Armstrong where he said his trainer used to say in a thick accent "all you need are the red cells." endurance athletes want the extra red cells for their oxygen carrying capacity. its a wonder that more endurance athletes haven't dropped dead from the levels that i have heard them having.

so here is my take on my experience with them. i took them in cycles for 3 years. i stopped after i had gotten engaged, was about to start a career (a real career) and new laws had come into play that made having them a serious crime. i never once had "roid rage." in fact, i was never in a better mood. i never got acne (though i would say i had a few extra zits than normal). when on the sauce my nuts were in fact 1/3 their normal size (makes sense... they werent needed so they atrophied). once i made the decision to stop using them, my strength and physical size were back to my 100% natural size within 1 year no matter how hard i trained and i would say back to within 80% within 6-8 months.

how did i feel while on it.... in all honesty.... AMAZING! i was always in a great mood. i had the ability to study in school much more intensely and for longer durations. i was full of energy (not spastic, just always ready for anything and never tired until it was time to call it a day). never wanted to be caught in sweat pants because woodies had to have happened 50 times/day (your sex drive is largely controlled by your testosterone and i was injecting 100 times the amount naturally found in my body... if memory serves, about 600mg/ week). i was bigger, stronger and faster than i had ever been. i could recover from workouts insanely fast (which is a big part of the reason the drugs work so well). i just generally had an amazing sense of wellbeing.

having said that, these are not the drugs that someone would want to use for an endurance sport like motocross or GNCC racing. at least not at the levels bodybuilders use. some steroids yes (testosterone for sure) but just to recover faster, not to look like the hulk. more mass requires more oxygen, thus the reason marathon runners don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

fast forward to my late 30s... i started noticing some things that i just attributed to getting older i felt as though i were getting moodier, had less energy, had troubles recovering from workouts, riding, working hard around my ranch etc. i also felt as though it took longer to recover from injuries. a good friend of mine who is 10 years older than i am suggested that i go see a doc here in town that specializes in mens health and hormone replacement therapy. turns out that back then he had already been seeing him for a couple years and he said what i was explaining to him were his exact symptoms. turns out his testosterone levels were really low and that his life had changed dramatically for the better since being on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). years went by and i never gave it much thought but every so often, we would be talking and i would be complaining about something and he would say.... "you need to go see dr #$%^@" and get your levels tested and he would remind me how great he felt. in 2017 i was diagnosed with an intradural extramedulary tumor at the C2 nerve root. the short version is that its a small benign pea size tumor inside my spinal cord. the docs think that theres a good chance that it could have been caused from one of my 2 neck injuries i had as a kid and believe it could have been in me for decades. its not growing (at least appreciably at the moment) but has caused some weird neurological issues that i had noticed for years but came to a head in 2017. most of it is just sensory stuff mixed with bouts of feeling motion sick for no reason. at first i thought this was the reason i had the mood issues etc mentioned above but my buddy still insisted to go get my testosterone levels checked. a year ago this month i decided what could it hurt so i got tested (i was 43 at the time). "normal" range (depending on who is testing you) is somewhere between 340 and 900 for men 18 to as old as they come... its a massive range. i was 206. the doc joked with me saying i was ready to buy feminine hygene products.

before he had told me what my results were, he asked what brought me in. i told him that i just didn't feel like i used to. i felt like i had half the energy i used to. my drive to work as hard as i used to was way down (both personal and professional). and the biggest thing.... i didn't feel like i dreamed anymore. not that i didn't dream when i slept but i didn't look forward to things in the future like used to... especially the little things in life. now don't get me wrong, i didn't want to go jump off the nearest bridge but my general enthusiasm for life just wasn't what it was.

he told me that what i was telling him were classic signs of low testosterone and that i had 3 options... the first was do nothing. the second was to try an oral drug called clomaphine (it is a drug that works with the HPA axis to help us produce more testosterone... we as body builders used to take it while coming off a cycle to kick our own endogenous testosterone back into production). they have mixed results with this method but some do really well on it. number 3 was to get on a weekly injection of testosterone. this is what my friend has been doing for 10+ years. he said that he would happily help me with any method i wanted. in the long run we decided the weekly injections would be the route i would go. i give myself the shot every thursday morning right when my alarm goes off. not a fun way to wake up but in all honesty, it absolutely is painless. still not the way to wake up for a guy that has always feared needles. lol

now this is not a doc that just prescribes this because he can make a ton of money doing this. he is one of our leading ER docs in town who had gone through a head injury that messed with his pituitary gland pretty well shutting off his own production of testosterone. after years of not knowing what was wrong and feeling really lousy, a colleague of his suggested getting his own testosterone tested. he was extremely low and after a very short time on the replacement therapy it had made such an impact on his life that he decided to go back and get more training on the subject. he has said that he has actually thought about leaving the ER to work with men on this subject full time because he feels like he has more of a positive impact on peoples lives than he does in the ER. needless to say i trust the guy and he is now my doc and prescribes TRT to me.

so how do i feel now right at 1 year after starting? AMAZING! now don't get me wrong, i am not taking super human levels of testosterone like i did back in my bodybuilding days. i inject 120mg once a week and at my last blood test i was floating around 1100. yes that is slightly higher than what is considered normal but there are people who are naturally much higher than that. 200mg is kind of the gold standard dose that most docs start people off at. i feel that my energy is back, my drive to work and work hard is back. i'm not tired until its time to go to bed. and though i felt like my wife and i had a very good sex life, it is insanely good now (thank god my wife has a libido like an 18 year old man lol). physically, i havent felt this good or looked like this since i was in my 20s. in fact, i didn't realize the drastic physical change until this past winter when we got back from kauai. we were looking through pictures and i about shit myself when i saw a pic of the two of us with our surfboards. i mean i knew i was getting bigger stronger, and losing fat but i didn't realize as to what extent. that inspired me to set some goals for my 44th bday. now mind you i have never lost the urge to workout and workout hard. i even have a pretty extensive gym in my house so i have maintained a level of strength. but i decided i wanted to bench press twice my bodyweight (i got that), 44 wide grip pullups (im stuck at 36), 475lb ass to calf squat (stuck at 460) and 100 dips (got that easily) by my 44th bday. in all honesty i physically look about 90% of what i did when i was in my early 20s prior to taking any PEDs. now granted all the aches and pains are still there but even then my mental outlook is such that they don't bother me as much.

most importantly, i have that zest for life again.... i dream.... i look forward to things in the future big or small. i just feel like me again.

now along with the testosterone i also have to take an aromatase inhibitor. we have enzymes in our body that break testosterone down into estrogen. this is something i took as a bodybuilder as well to keep estrogen under control. this is very important not only because we don't want all the unwanted side effects of estrogen like gynocomastia (aka bitch tits), water retention etc.... it is also known that increased estrogen levels can "wake up" the prostate cancer gene that we as all men carry. as we age, our bodies start to decrease test production but increase estrogen production. the beauty of monitoring and controlling my estrogen is that it is thought to decrease the likelihood of prostate cancer.

when i first started TRT, i was embarrassed to tell anyone. now it has such a positive impact on my life i tell everyone which is the reason i felt the need to mention it here.... i know "Jonny Depp" isn't a "spring chicken" and while he may have been joking with this thread... he may have had a little curiosity about PEDS. and on the subject of PEDs.... unless you are dealing with a doc directly in guiding you, DO NOT DO IT. there is so much science behind it that a guy or gal could really damage their body if they just randomly start trying different performance enhancing drugs.

but if you are a guy in your mid 30s or older and just noticing that you arent yourself anymore, think about getting your test levels tested. it might be the best PED you ever took that made you feel like you again.

sorry for the novel, just thought maybe it might be of help to someone

A long read, but def interesting content. Nice to hear from someone who has the firsthand experience!
JB 19
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Location
Marion, OH US
6/2/2022 4:34am
Staying away from cholesterol is the fountain of youth. Seriously. It's pretty much that simple.

6
6/2/2022 5:10am
Long time PED user and abuser here. Feeling the effects of aging hard and flirting with TRT and alternatives now

Test is fabulous. Aromatization was always an issue when you started pushing levels. The singular fountain of youth. Made for a great base to cycles because of the sexual bonus.

Tren was the King though. Rage, strength, endurance, but missing a bit of the hump anything factor. Converting fina kits was so easy that I basically paid rent from converting fina in college.

Always thought of orals as novelty, could get some huge strength, but massive bloating and blood pressure.

Pretty much didnt come off for years at a time. Seemed like there was no point to when following a blast and cruise protocol.

After a decade off and dealing with nagging injuries, poor recovery times, Ive been looking into TRT and sarms. Hard to trust some of the sarms companies and quality.
Did RAD140 for a month, 30mg ed, thought I maybe noticed something right away, but I think it was probably placebo effect. Shady supplement store here had RAD150 as well. Immediately went into 2 months of RAD150 and it reminded me of a discount Tren. Fraction of the strength, fraction of the sides, all the rage (I was rage emailing the school board like 3 days into it). No real increase in sex drive. Just kind of felt like the protein I was eating was actually going to repairing and recovering muscle. I did start to feel like I was starting to suppress natural production after 6 weeks but it wasnt bad and I seemed to come back very fast.

Some of the SARMs are not actually sarms but seem promising too. the RAD150 I thought actually worked was from Matrix Labs, I see they have a stack called Shr3d that Id like to try. Looks like it could be a promising riding season performance and recovery stack.
rbm33
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295
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Location
duncan, OK US
Fantasy
1901st
6/2/2022 7:59am
Test, with Primo, Proverion and Anavar is a decent cycle for endurance while having minimal side effects.
1
carver
Posts
39
Joined
9/3/2017
Location
Torrance, CA US
6/2/2022 8:33am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2022 8:36am
Zerofear66 wrote:
I do a ton of research utilizing this website. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ If you want to see what's up with whatever you're thinking about using. I'd recommend starting...
I do a ton of research utilizing this website.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

If you want to see what's up with whatever you're thinking about using.

I'd recommend starting there.

If you're getting all your info from a magazine.
Good luck with that 👍
Pubmed is great, also recommend https://examine.com/ for organization and reducing the time to search for articles.

Someone said nothing over the counter works for Test., that might be true for someone with perfect nutrition, hydration, exercise and sleep, but it's possible that a significant test improvement can result from getting those optimized.

While not anti-trt per say, I'd much rather try to fix my body's issues first rather than need trt for life once starting.
Tracktor
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The RTF/Amboy, WA US
6/2/2022 3:06pm
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way cheaper that way & actually has worked better. Like mentioned before I don't care if it happens to shorten my life span Id rather feel better & do more now. Just a basic cycle can make a difference in quality of life.

I tried hgh but my feet/ankles swelled up from water retention so stopped. Haven't tried again as need to research that side effect a bit further....
1
alycium102
Posts
88
Joined
11/14/2017
Location
Carver, MN US
6/2/2022 4:40pm
Tracktor wrote:
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way...
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way cheaper that way & actually has worked better. Like mentioned before I don't care if it happens to shorten my life span Id rather feel better & do more now. Just a basic cycle can make a difference in quality of life.

I tried hgh but my feet/ankles swelled up from water retention so stopped. Haven't tried again as need to research that side effect a bit further....
I’ve been on it medically for 6 months now, testosterone cypionate, and been getting horrible arm pump. Really bad actually. Did you experience that? I just stopped taking it a week ago to try and see if there’s a difference in arm pump. I know it takes a few weeks before it’s out of my system but still
BAD10
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1027
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Location
San Diego, CA US
6/2/2022 5:31pm
Tracktor wrote:
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way...
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way cheaper that way & actually has worked better. Like mentioned before I don't care if it happens to shorten my life span Id rather feel better & do more now. Just a basic cycle can make a difference in quality of life.

I tried hgh but my feet/ankles swelled up from water retention so stopped. Haven't tried again as need to research that side effect a bit further....
alycium102 wrote:
I’ve been on it medically for 6 months now, testosterone cypionate, and been getting horrible arm pump. Really bad actually. Did you experience that? I just...
I’ve been on it medically for 6 months now, testosterone cypionate, and been getting horrible arm pump. Really bad actually. Did you experience that? I just stopped taking it a week ago to try and see if there’s a difference in arm pump. I know it takes a few weeks before it’s out of my system but still
The only reason Testosterone could cause arm pump would be through elevated Estrogen levels, which increases water retention. Are you taking Arimadex to keep estrogen in check? Get a blood test.
RCF
Posts
546
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Location
PA US
6/2/2022 6:05pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2022 6:06pm
Tracktor wrote:
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way...
I started with a TRT doc but ended up buying it "black market" from a body builder friend who has been doing it/researching for years. Way cheaper that way & actually has worked better. Like mentioned before I don't care if it happens to shorten my life span Id rather feel better & do more now. Just a basic cycle can make a difference in quality of life.

I tried hgh but my feet/ankles swelled up from water retention so stopped. Haven't tried again as need to research that side effect a bit further....
alycium102 wrote:
I’ve been on it medically for 6 months now, testosterone cypionate, and been getting horrible arm pump. Really bad actually. Did you experience that? I just...
I’ve been on it medically for 6 months now, testosterone cypionate, and been getting horrible arm pump. Really bad actually. Did you experience that? I just stopped taking it a week ago to try and see if there’s a difference in arm pump. I know it takes a few weeks before it’s out of my system but still
Are you taking your dose all in one shot a week or braking it up into 2 or 3 shots a week? By braking it up it will keep your test level more even and cut down on the risk of high estrogen levels.
1
Hcallz5
Posts
2845
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Location
UT US
6/2/2022 6:13pm
Regenokine for healing injuries. I'm surprised more pros don't use it for recovery, I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrandis is getting some of that type of treatment over in France to recover.
Kelz87
Posts
1159
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7/21/2018
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
Fantasy
1468th
6/2/2022 7:56pm
RCF wrote:
If you use that over-the-counter stuff you'll be going bra shopping with your wife
WCRider wrote:
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide... Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) : Day 1 : 300mg...
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide...

Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) :

Day 1 : 300mg + 40mg Nolva
Day 2/11 : 100mg + 20mg Nolva
Day 12/22 : 50mg + 20mg Nolva

This is the standard protocol for relaunch your balls.

300mg of Clomid is a shitton. Even 50mg/day is kind of a lot tbh unless your balls are reallyyy shut down lol
RCF
Posts
546
Joined
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Location
PA US
6/3/2022 8:42am
RCF wrote:
If you use that over-the-counter stuff you'll be going bra shopping with your wife
WCRider wrote:
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide... Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) : Day 1 : 300mg...
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide...

Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) :

Day 1 : 300mg + 40mg Nolva
Day 2/11 : 100mg + 20mg Nolva
Day 12/22 : 50mg + 20mg Nolva

This is the standard protocol for relaunch your balls.

Kelz87 wrote:
300mg of Clomid is a shitton. Even 50mg/day is kind of a lot tbh unless your balls are reallyyy shut down lol
It's actually a lot safer to take Low dose of cialis everyday or ever other day To control estrogen It will also raise your free test and lower your bp. It's becoming popular among body builders.
6/3/2022 10:57am
WCRider wrote:
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide... Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) : Day 1 : 300mg...
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide...

Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) :

Day 1 : 300mg + 40mg Nolva
Day 2/11 : 100mg + 20mg Nolva
Day 12/22 : 50mg + 20mg Nolva

This is the standard protocol for relaunch your balls.

Not everyone gets gyno from peds. Most do though. Nips start tingling watch out, its coming. You have to get your levels tested and use a estrogen blocker or you're driving blind.
Kelz87
Posts
1159
Joined
7/21/2018
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
Fantasy
1468th
6/3/2022 12:58pm
WCRider wrote:
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide... Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) : Day 1 : 300mg...
If you don't use a PCT, you will need a bra and you want commit suicide...

Clomid + Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) :

Day 1 : 300mg + 40mg Nolva
Day 2/11 : 100mg + 20mg Nolva
Day 12/22 : 50mg + 20mg Nolva

This is the standard protocol for relaunch your balls.

Not everyone gets gyno from peds. Most do though. Nips start tingling watch out, its coming. You have to get your levels tested and use a...
Not everyone gets gyno from peds. Most do though. Nips start tingling watch out, its coming. You have to get your levels tested and use a estrogen blocker or you're driving blind.
I don’t think a lot of people realize this. If you’re taking high amounts of exogenous testosterone, your body stops test production AND converts the excess into estrogen, which is where the gyno comes in. And the reason you need an aromatase inhibitor (AI)

You don’t typically take one compound without taking a test base..and then an AI is needed to combat gyno..and then an ovulation stimulate your restart natural test production for post-cycle therapy Grinning

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