What is happening at Suzuki?

Construction
Posts
76
Joined
9/22/2017
Location
Little Ferry, NJ US
11/21/2017 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2017 3:54pm
Paul333 wrote:
If you look at their financial reports Suzuki motorcycles are selling and the division is profitable. I guess they just don't care enough to try any...
If you look at their financial reports Suzuki motorcycles are selling and the division is profitable. I guess they just don't care enough to try any harder.

Sad really.

I honestly thought the Japanese brands would wake up and copy the Austrians. It's not rocket science; invest in R&D and make updates, even modest updates to keep consumers interested. Build kids bikes again; 50, 65, and update the 85 to jump start those sales and get kids growing up on your brand. Make a simple splash in the industry and build MX 2-stroke 125 & 250. This alone would wake up the whole industry.

Short version: Copy virtually everything the Austrians are doing.....
Ktm is following a slippery slope that bit Yamaha in 09. Pushing out tons of product in a iffy market lost Yamaha 2 billion dollars in 09. That happens to ktm and they’re done as they haven’t had big profitable Yamaha has. It took Yamaha until this year to make that money back. Let me remind you guys for the ktm giving the customer what they want thier best year ever was 60 mill that is nothing why would the Japanese companies want to copy that and go from 1.6 billion to 60 mill
SEMAC
Posts
308
Joined
11/21/2017
Location
cordoba, Ver. MX
11/21/2017 3:55pm
MX76er wrote:
Just wondering if anyone out there knows the real story behind Suzukis struggles... The likes of no mxgp team, BNG on the 250f. Also a heavy...
Just wondering if anyone out there knows the real story behind Suzukis struggles... The likes of no mxgp team, BNG on the 250f. Also a heavy 450 that has gotten bad reviews. Why is everyone dogging on the Suzuki camp when season ain't even begun! Go JGR! Way to invest in our sport; thank you!
I am a happy owner of four Suzuki 250z,for me and my sons,,i used to have a 250 KTM,in wich one of my sons almost died,because the shock simply blew apart in mid air iafter take off,30 feet up in the air,,when he was doing free style,fortunately i sold that junk.,always checking for loose bolts and failed weldings.
Just waiting to see who would buy in 2 or 3 years those austrian wonders when they became yunk.
tydog
Posts
939
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Monticello, GA US
11/21/2017 4:22pm
Paul333 wrote:
If you look at their financial reports Suzuki motorcycles are selling and the division is profitable. I guess they just don't care enough to try any...
If you look at their financial reports Suzuki motorcycles are selling and the division is profitable. I guess they just don't care enough to try any harder.

Sad really.

I honestly thought the Japanese brands would wake up and copy the Austrians. It's not rocket science; invest in R&D and make updates, even modest updates to keep consumers interested. Build kids bikes again; 50, 65, and update the 85 to jump start those sales and get kids growing up on your brand. Make a simple splash in the industry and build MX 2-stroke 125 & 250. This alone would wake up the whole industry.

Short version: Copy virtually everything the Austrians are doing.....
BullsEye!!!
JeepnMike
Posts
2528
Joined
10/18/2012
Location
Enumclaw, WA US
11/21/2017 4:30pm
jj welks wrote:
Best place to ask this type of question is vital no doubt
Hey now, this is the place I come to get all of my moto info!! Laughing

More reliable than CNN too! Silly

The Shop

malachi177
Posts
2281
Joined
12/18/2010
Location
B.C., BC CA
11/21/2017 4:34pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It's the same Suzuki debate that goes on every month. Either go buy a Suzuki or quit whining
BobPA wrote:
I'd push a chainless bicycle before I bought a Suzuki
Trudare69 wrote:
^ funny, I think the same way about Yamaha
I'm the same way about KTMLaughing
SEMAC
Posts
308
Joined
11/21/2017
Location
cordoba, Ver. MX
11/21/2017 4:53pm
I also have one KX259F,is a good bike,but,same thing happened befor,with another one of my sons,when they started to ride the suszuki,they never wanted to go back to the Kawi,that is why suzuki owners are loyal to the brand,they want a reliable,fun bike to ride,not one mechanical austrian wonder,with lots of tme invested in maintenance
racinstation
Posts
804
Joined
5/18/2013
Location
Driggs, ID US
Fantasy
1921st
11/21/2017 5:01pm
I find it odd that people most that seem most worried about Suzuki don't ride one and are not fans of the brand. If Suzuki dominated motocross or went out of business just about everybody on the forum will go on tomorrow same as today...........yet they seem so concerned.

As stated way above, if you are worried about the companies well being go buy a new Suzuki. Do your part.

BobPA
Posts
8025
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
11/21/2017 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2017 5:59pm
Ktm is following a slippery slope that bit Yamaha in 09. Pushing out tons of product in a iffy market lost Yamaha 2 billion dollars in...
Ktm is following a slippery slope that bit Yamaha in 09. Pushing out tons of product in a iffy market lost Yamaha 2 billion dollars in 09. That happens to ktm and they’re done as they haven’t had big profitable Yamaha has. It took Yamaha until this year to make that money back. Let me remind you guys for the ktm giving the customer what they want thier best year ever was 60 mill that is nothing why would the Japanese companies want to copy that and go from 1.6 billion to 60 mill
You still fail to realize that Suzuki's motorcycle division is not making any money, it is losing money. You have this agenda to undermine a company that "only profited 60 million in their best year." But, you fail to understand the simple logic that Suzuki LOSES money on their motorcycle sales. $60 million > -$8 million (-0.9 billion yen, according to their company figures which I provided you earlier in the thread).

I have nothing against Suzuki at all, it is just comical when people are shown cold hard facts, that they cannot see past their delusions.

Please point out to me where KTM is in trouble. I even provided their sales figures link. I do not think you understand that smaller companies produce smaller profits.

http://www.ktmgroup.com/globalassets/media/files/financial-reports/2017…

EDIT: Actually according to these newest figures Suzuki is gaining ground

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/globalnews/2017/1102.html
TeamGreen
Posts
28934
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
11/21/2017 6:25pm
KTM is in trouble?

Really?

Husqvarna, too?

KISKA?

Wow, I guess I'm really not seeing what I'm seeing and the sky is falling.
drt410
Posts
2075
Joined
3/18/2017
Location
Boston, MA US
11/21/2017 6:51pm Edited Date/Time 11/21/2017 6:53pm
Itd be pretty easy to get people interested. The bikes turn and ride great, theyre reliable and fun bikes. Drop some pounds off the thing update the engine a bit add e-start on 450 next year and the 250 the next year as someone said along with the new fairings.

They built tons of engines for all different kinds of vehicles they know what theyre doing. In a way it was smart to have a solid bike and just make very small changes for almost a decade. The time has now come where the bike is very dated and they need to reinvest and create a new base with major changes get people re-interested again drop the weight wayyy down add the e start and then they can just do the same thing again for the next 8 years if they want to again off of the new platform.
11/21/2017 8:51pm
You couldn’t be wrong. Try looking at financials
BobPA wrote:
You can read about it here http://www.globalsuzuki.com/ir/library/annualreport/pdf/2017/2017all.pdf.

They lost money in their motorcycle division.
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you...
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you left that fact out. Let’s repeat 1.5 billion to the all time best 60 mill
When comparing financials, be sure to compare apples to apples. I see Suzuki’s Net income of 1.5 billion Yen, when I looked at KTM 2016 financials, their net income was 72.1 million Euros. Convert them into US greenbacks and you will see that the difference isn’t all that great. 1 Yen is 0.0089 of a USA dollar, 1 Euro is worth $1.17
11/21/2017 10:23pm
drt410 wrote:
Itd be pretty easy to get people interested. The bikes turn and ride great, theyre reliable and fun bikes. Drop some pounds off the thing update...
Itd be pretty easy to get people interested. The bikes turn and ride great, theyre reliable and fun bikes. Drop some pounds off the thing update the engine a bit add e-start on 450 next year and the 250 the next year as someone said along with the new fairings.

They built tons of engines for all different kinds of vehicles they know what theyre doing. In a way it was smart to have a solid bike and just make very small changes for almost a decade. The time has now come where the bike is very dated and they need to reinvest and create a new base with major changes get people re-interested again drop the weight wayyy down add the e start and then they can just do the same thing again for the next 8 years if they want to again off of the new platform.
i totally understand the changes and new base! im all in for a lighter bike! maybe a couple horsepower more out of the rm-z250! But .. am i the only one that doesnt want e-start? i was reading today about a yz with electric start that didnt start after a crash because wires were broken... how shitty is that...
Indymxer
Posts
165
Joined
4/22/2017
Location
Carmel, IN US
11/21/2017 10:29pm
Maybe I'm wrong, but i always thought suzuki made more money from marine engines than anything else? I live in a seaside town in the uk...
Maybe I'm wrong, but i always thought suzuki made more money from marine engines than anything else? I live in a seaside town in the uk & suzuki outboards seem to be everywhere.
ML512 wrote:
Suzuki's marine division does well but ultimately selling small cars in markets all over the world is where the core of their business lies these days.
Yes. Suzuki automobiles overseas are a pretty big player.
APLMAN99
Posts
10095
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
11/22/2017 12:45am
BobPA wrote:
You can read about it here http://www.globalsuzuki.com/ir/library/annualreport/pdf/2017/2017all.pdf.

They lost money in their motorcycle division.
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you...
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you left that fact out. Let’s repeat 1.5 billion to the all time best 60 mill
Bnagazina wrote:
When comparing financials, be sure to compare apples to apples. I see Suzuki’s Net income of 1.5 billion Yen, when I looked at KTM 2016 financials...
When comparing financials, be sure to compare apples to apples. I see Suzuki’s Net income of 1.5 billion Yen, when I looked at KTM 2016 financials, their net income was 72.1 million Euros. Convert them into US greenbacks and you will see that the difference isn’t all that great. 1 Yen is 0.0089 of a USA dollar, 1 Euro is worth $1.17
You read the figures wrong. Suzuki's net income was just under 160 billion yen, which equates to just about $1.42 billion US dollars.

Just looking at the numbers quickly it does appear that KTM makes a significantly higher profit percentage on their revenue, though........
Francis377
Posts
431
Joined
6/13/2009
Location
Marseilles, MA US
11/22/2017 12:58am
Why would a company like Suzuki be investing in a market ( offroad 2 wheelers) that is contracting year after year with no end in sight. The pie is getting smaller and smaller. Even Ktm knows this and are investing heavily to build a reputation on the road bike segment. See MotoGp and their co-operation with Bajaj ( who own 49% of KTM btw).
Ktm has a leadership with Pierer that is truly passionate about racing and especially winning races and that is why they have such a big Motorsports dept that is like a black whole for money. I am sure that the partnership with red bull helps out a ton as well. As a company they are highly specialized in motorcycles which allows them to focus on 2wheeled offroaders and they can keep making money because every year they take market share from the other OEMs. But 60million is small compared to the others so its probably more of a decision by the Japanese to just let that market share go because they have bigger fish to fry than selling dirtbikes. Winning races is still important to establish your brand though but if motocross does not attract viewership/clicks you can be sure that some of the big OEMs will let that go by the wayside too in the medium term.
Construction
Posts
76
Joined
9/22/2017
Location
Little Ferry, NJ US
11/22/2017 3:42am
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you...
And Ktms best year ever was 60 mill and Zuki made 1.5 bill last year. So who would you want to be ? How convienent you left that fact out. Let’s repeat 1.5 billion to the all time best 60 mill
Bnagazina wrote:
When comparing financials, be sure to compare apples to apples. I see Suzuki’s Net income of 1.5 billion Yen, when I looked at KTM 2016 financials...
When comparing financials, be sure to compare apples to apples. I see Suzuki’s Net income of 1.5 billion Yen, when I looked at KTM 2016 financials, their net income was 72.1 million Euros. Convert them into US greenbacks and you will see that the difference isn’t all that great. 1 Yen is 0.0089 of a USA dollar, 1 Euro is worth $1.17
APLMAN99 wrote:
You read the figures wrong. Suzuki's net income was just under 160 billion yen, which equates to just about $1.42 billion US dollars. Just looking at...
You read the figures wrong. Suzuki's net income was just under 160 billion yen, which equates to just about $1.42 billion US dollars.

Just looking at the numbers quickly it does appear that KTM makes a significantly higher profit percentage on their revenue, though........
Yeah looking around at different places at financials this morning in US dollar I have seen them at 1.49 bill and 1.57 bill. Not sure why the difference from place to place but haven’t seen as low as 1.42 in US dollar conversion yet
Dougy1
Posts
474
Joined
4/14/2017
Location
AU
11/22/2017 3:48am
jj welks wrote:
Best place to ask this type of question is vital no doubt
Haha so true ... We know all, but really we know fuck all
roninho
Posts
1622
Joined
7/14/2015
Location
IT
11/22/2017 3:51am
Francis377 wrote:
Why would a company like Suzuki be investing in a market ( offroad 2 wheelers) that is contracting year after year with no end in sight...
Why would a company like Suzuki be investing in a market ( offroad 2 wheelers) that is contracting year after year with no end in sight. The pie is getting smaller and smaller. Even Ktm knows this and are investing heavily to build a reputation on the road bike segment. See MotoGp and their co-operation with Bajaj ( who own 49% of KTM btw).
Ktm has a leadership with Pierer that is truly passionate about racing and especially winning races and that is why they have such a big Motorsports dept that is like a black whole for money. I am sure that the partnership with red bull helps out a ton as well. As a company they are highly specialized in motorcycles which allows them to focus on 2wheeled offroaders and they can keep making money because every year they take market share from the other OEMs. But 60million is small compared to the others so its probably more of a decision by the Japanese to just let that market share go because they have bigger fish to fry than selling dirtbikes. Winning races is still important to establish your brand though but if motocross does not attract viewership/clicks you can be sure that some of the big OEMs will let that go by the wayside too in the medium term.
People keep saying that the 60 million is such a low number that it isn't that interesting for other OEMs, but i don't think that is the issue. The 60 million is actually a very attractive return compared to the sales numbers, and imo any of the japanese oem's would like to have a a mx division having those kinds of returns.

However imo Suzuki realises that their vision and strategy has not worked and will not work, and more importantly that the strategy that KTM uses (which is working) is so far removed from Suzuki's mindset that they know it is very unlikely it will work for them, and if it is going to work it will be a very long, hard and painfull process to change the culture and strategy. So it's easier and less risky to just reduce spending.

There are so many things KTM (and Husky) is doing that Suzuki is not doing, but what surprised me the most is that OEM's ditched youth classes. Can't speak for worldwide, but over here (Netherlands) i'm quite certain that KTM and Husqvarna sell more bikes in 50-85-125cc as Suzuki (or kawa or Honda) is selling in 250f-450f.
Which is nice for growing revenue (especially with almost no competition, so margins should be nice), but maybe even more important is that KTM and Husky is building great brand & dealer loyalty for a whole generation of MX riders and families that Suzuki and others are missing out on.
roninho
Posts
1622
Joined
7/14/2015
Location
IT
11/22/2017 3:57am
But anyway, there is a long history of motocross companies that have come and gone. Husaberg and Cagiva won world titles in the 80's/90's and are gone. Husqvarna went through difficult times on multiple occasions.

With KTM gaining huge market share over the last decade, and with Husqvarna (under the guidance of KTM) starting to do the same in combination with the MX market getting smaller it is quite simple: something has to give.
11/22/2017 4:16am
Bruce372 wrote:
It's the same Suzuki debate that goes on every month. Either go buy a Suzuki or quit whining
BobPA wrote:
I'd push a chainless bicycle before I bought a Suzuki
Trudare69 wrote:
^ funny, I think the same way about Yamaha
And that's how I feel about a Honda. One brand that doesn't flick my switch. You could GIVE me a CRF... I wouldn't want it.
Francis377
Posts
431
Joined
6/13/2009
Location
Marseilles, MA US
11/22/2017 4:49am
Francis377 wrote:
Why would a company like Suzuki be investing in a market ( offroad 2 wheelers) that is contracting year after year with no end in sight...
Why would a company like Suzuki be investing in a market ( offroad 2 wheelers) that is contracting year after year with no end in sight. The pie is getting smaller and smaller. Even Ktm knows this and are investing heavily to build a reputation on the road bike segment. See MotoGp and their co-operation with Bajaj ( who own 49% of KTM btw).
Ktm has a leadership with Pierer that is truly passionate about racing and especially winning races and that is why they have such a big Motorsports dept that is like a black whole for money. I am sure that the partnership with red bull helps out a ton as well. As a company they are highly specialized in motorcycles which allows them to focus on 2wheeled offroaders and they can keep making money because every year they take market share from the other OEMs. But 60million is small compared to the others so its probably more of a decision by the Japanese to just let that market share go because they have bigger fish to fry than selling dirtbikes. Winning races is still important to establish your brand though but if motocross does not attract viewership/clicks you can be sure that some of the big OEMs will let that go by the wayside too in the medium term.
roninho wrote:
People keep saying that the 60 million is such a low number that it isn't that interesting for other OEMs, but i don't think that is...
People keep saying that the 60 million is such a low number that it isn't that interesting for other OEMs, but i don't think that is the issue. The 60 million is actually a very attractive return compared to the sales numbers, and imo any of the japanese oem's would like to have a a mx division having those kinds of returns.

However imo Suzuki realises that their vision and strategy has not worked and will not work, and more importantly that the strategy that KTM uses (which is working) is so far removed from Suzuki's mindset that they know it is very unlikely it will work for them, and if it is going to work it will be a very long, hard and painfull process to change the culture and strategy. So it's easier and less risky to just reduce spending.

There are so many things KTM (and Husky) is doing that Suzuki is not doing, but what surprised me the most is that OEM's ditched youth classes. Can't speak for worldwide, but over here (Netherlands) i'm quite certain that KTM and Husqvarna sell more bikes in 50-85-125cc as Suzuki (or kawa or Honda) is selling in 250f-450f.
Which is nice for growing revenue (especially with almost no competition, so margins should be nice), but maybe even more important is that KTM and Husky is building great brand & dealer loyalty for a whole generation of MX riders and families that Suzuki and others are missing out on.
Dont get me wrong, KTM is a highly succesful company and 60million is an awesome result. I just went back to look and for 2016 financial year they made 72 Million in profit. so they backed it up once more and you could say they are just as succesful as a business as they are as a racing organization. considering Pierer started from pretty much scratch in 92, you would have to be a fool to think these people arent good at what they do. whether it is their racing dpt, R& D or sales KTM has proven themselves to be winners.
I was looking purely at the motocross/offroad segment. Which is shrinking and depending who you ask, is pretty much doomed. ( I mean for real, parents make their children wear helmets to ride a kickboard nowadays, where does that leave motocross?) So when a company like suzuki looks at the sport of motocross and try to think what money can be made from selling dirtbikes in the next 10-20yrs , you cant fault them for not investing heavily. who knows how a retreat from motocross competition at the pro level will affect their brand/image as a whole.
downard254
Posts
4055
Joined
12/10/2012
Location
Bremen, OH US
11/22/2017 5:47am
peelout wrote:
they're still scrounging for change to pay Dungey back for his 63 race win bonuses
They probably sabotaged his 2011 season so he wouldn't win anything or else they'd be bankrupt by now. Pinch
peelout
Posts
17867
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
11/22/2017 8:34am
peelout wrote:
they're still scrounging for change to pay Dungey back for his 63 race win bonuses
downard254 wrote:
They probably sabotaged his 2011 season so he wouldn't win anything or else they'd be bankrupt by now. Pinch
11/22/2017 9:48am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2017 10:03am
@lips395 wrote:
Suzuki japan don’t have the money to invest its that simple
That’s why the car side of Suzuki has also faded
Might want to do some research buddy!

Money is being put into the right direction as a business. OFFROAD has never been Suzuki's bread and butter and never will be.

A lot of simple minded individuals on here that think dirtbike racing is something of a huge sport. Reality is that this sport is really insignificant to the Oem's and would be the first to go if the company ever got in trouble. The fact that Suzuki is continually releasing bikes says a lot. As for their racing efforts, well that has a lot to do with the upper executives that really dont see the future of offroad racing. Atleast in the direction that its going at this point.



@lips395
Posts
370
Joined
1/20/2016
Location
AU
11/22/2017 11:36am
@lips395 wrote:
Suzuki japan don’t have the money to invest its that simple
That’s why the car side of Suzuki has also faded
Might want to do some research buddy! Money is being put into the right direction as a business. OFFROAD has never been Suzuki's bread and butter...
Might want to do some research buddy!

Money is being put into the right direction as a business. OFFROAD has never been Suzuki's bread and butter and never will be.

A lot of simple minded individuals on here that think dirtbike racing is something of a huge sport. Reality is that this sport is really insignificant to the Oem's and would be the first to go if the company ever got in trouble. The fact that Suzuki is continually releasing bikes says a lot. As for their racing efforts, well that has a lot to do with the upper executives that really dont see the future of offroad racing. Atleast in the direction that its going at this point.




Keep in mind this is a motorcyle page and Suzuki have been pulling back on motorcycle support all over the world
They have had bad sales compared to other Japanese brands
and my comment is based on the motorcyle side of there buisness if they were selling Offroad bikes in good numbers I highly doubt they would scale back there efforts

Appreciate the name calling very original thing to do in a forum

In Australia they don’t even rate in the top 10


ruy
Posts
4092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
España ES
11/23/2017 4:40am
@lips395 wrote:
Suzuki japan don’t have the money to invest its that simple
That’s why the car side of Suzuki has also faded
Might want to do some research buddy! Money is being put into the right direction as a business. OFFROAD has never been Suzuki's bread and butter...
Might want to do some research buddy!

Money is being put into the right direction as a business. OFFROAD has never been Suzuki's bread and butter and never will be.

A lot of simple minded individuals on here that think dirtbike racing is something of a huge sport. Reality is that this sport is really insignificant to the Oem's and would be the first to go if the company ever got in trouble. The fact that Suzuki is continually releasing bikes says a lot. As for their racing efforts, well that has a lot to do with the upper executives that really dont see the future of offroad racing. Atleast in the direction that its going at this point.





ruy
Posts
4092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
España ES
11/23/2017 4:45am Edited Date/Time 11/23/2017 4:46am
Bruce372 wrote:
It's the same Suzuki debate that goes on every month. Either go buy a Suzuki or quit whining
BobPA wrote:
I'd push a chainless bicycle before I bought a Suzuki
Be careful with your words, Bad Brad may not like them Smile

ruy
Posts
4092
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
España ES
11/23/2017 4:53am
And Stefan Everts ... He has not had anything to do ..? He got kicked out of KTM and now Suzuki, well, they've even closed the team ... In just one year of him as team manager...
JAFO92
Posts
4253
Joined
3/21/2016
Location
BFE, TX US
11/23/2017 5:54am Edited Date/Time 11/23/2017 7:19am
Dont see how anyone who says they love motocross, express such disdain for a brand that is/was such an integral part in the creation of motocross as we know it. Its like some of you pricks revel in the fact that Suzuki is cutting back production and/or having bad sales in recent years. The biggest two names that ever raced motocross won on Suzuki and that alone should have merit with you mouth breathers, but I digress.




Post a reply to: What is happening at Suzuki?

The Latest