Why do bikes need to shift down for first gear?

wvumounty
Posts
267
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
Butler, PA US
3/4/2020 7:23am Edited Date/Time 3/7/2020 4:28am
What is the engineering behind this? Listening to podcasts and hear all the crashes due to false neutral or inability to shift through neutral under power.
Why not neutal all the way up?
4
14
|
c0ncEpT
Posts
1264
Joined
5/13/2015
Location
Harrison Twp., MI US
3/4/2020 7:29am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2020 7:31am
It's designed so that you can't just hit neutral by clicking all the way up or down.

A false neutral isn't someone just hitting neutral between 1st and 2nd gear. It's when the transmission get's stuck between a gear that isn't supposed to have a neutral between it.

At any engine speed above idle its almost impossible to actually get the bike in neutral.
wvumounty
Posts
267
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
Butler, PA US
3/4/2020 7:34am
Thanks. Makes sense. Listening to whiskey throttle pod of wil Hahn and got me thinking.
2
2
motogrady
Posts
3931
Joined
1/27/2008
Location
WV US
3/4/2020 7:38am
Back in the early 70s I rode with a guy that had a Kawasaki 100. All up, neutral at the bottom. Sometimes he would lose count, downshift coming into a hairpin, grab a handful Coming out only to find he was in neutral. Embarrassing to say the least.
9

The Shop

wvumounty
Posts
267
Joined
10/2/2018
Location
Butler, PA US
3/4/2020 7:56am
Thanks. Makes sense. Listening to whiskey throttle pod of wil Hahn and got me thinking.
2
2
3/4/2020 9:44am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2020 9:47am
My MR 50 was 3 up. I think trail 70 were 3 down for the auto clutch versions?? Apples to oranges but I think small bikes aren’t held to a set pattern.
GregDVT
Posts
703
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Phoenix, MD US
3/4/2020 9:53am
Keep in mind MotoGP bikes are 1 up 6 down.
1
3/4/2020 9:57am
^^ yes many street bikes have a shift linkage that can be reversed ( or using aftermarket rear sets) to give a 1 up 5 down pattern. Helps with upshifting out of a left turn . Don’t have to put your toe under the lever as the bike is leaned left. Someone told me when accelerating look up and shift up, when braking look down and shift down.
3
Ray_MXS
Posts
1116
Joined
10/28/2016
Location
SE
3/4/2020 10:03am Edited Date/Time 3/4/2020 10:04am
I don't know about you but I'd rather hit false neutral going the speed I'm trying to hit 1st or 2nd gear than at the speed I'm trying to hit 5th or 6th.
GCBC
Posts
451
Joined
11/19/2017
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
3/4/2020 10:32am
KTM has completely fixed this issue of hitting N unintentionally.





also they have made it equally impossible to hit N intentionally.....
3/4/2020 10:35am
GregDVT wrote:
Keep in mind MotoGP bikes are 1 up 6 down.
Yes, not a good thing to try and put your foot even closer to the ground while leaned deep into a sweeper and needing an upshift LOL.
2
3/4/2020 1:30pm
I just have 4 gears on my 2013 KTM sxf 450 and I never use 1st gear while on any MX track
Nuffsaid
Posts
573
Joined
3/24/2018
Location
Bakersfield, CA US
3/4/2020 1:35pm
Try riding 2 classes on 2 different bikes with one left shifting and the other right side shifting, miss the 70’s 😎
6
Paw Paw 271
Posts
3640
Joined
4/3/2013
Location
Benton, LA US
3/4/2020 2:08pm
Back in the early days of MX bikes... Almost every maker had a different shift pattern and even different side locations of the shifter . At some point in time, as a safety thing, all shifter were relocated to the left side and the pattern was standardized.

Paw Paw
5
philG
Posts
9630
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
3/4/2020 2:11pm
I have a 3 speed bike with neutral at the bottom. You only get it wrong once.
1
reynardfan1
Posts
789
Joined
7/28/2014
Location
Gretna, NE US
Fantasy
3626th
3/4/2020 5:00pm
I thought it was so you could jam it all the way down to first...without accidentally going too far to neutral...imagine going down the hills of Millville shifting down the gears and ending up in neutral every time...just a thought
1
mxtech1
Posts
1954
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
3/4/2020 6:07pm
US Code of Federal regulations under Title 49
1
3/4/2020 6:10pm
I think back in the old days Bridgestone made a bike where the gears could be cycled from top gear to neutral. Called it rotary shift.
RMT
Posts
1234
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Lake Forest, CA US
3/4/2020 7:54pm
GregDVT wrote:
Keep in mind MotoGP bikes are 1 up 6 down.
Actually, they are all down to shift up through the gears.

Neutral is at the bottom, so it’s N123456. You have to hit a button to get into neutral.
3
BobbyM
Posts
21449
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
3/5/2020 1:51am
wvumounty wrote:
What is the engineering behind this? Listening to podcasts and hear all the crashes due to false neutral or inability to shift through neutral under power...
What is the engineering behind this? Listening to podcasts and hear all the crashes due to false neutral or inability to shift through neutral under power.
Why not neutal all the way up?
Hills and hill climbing. Especially very long and steep ones.
KDXGarage
Posts
2562
Joined
12/16/2010
Location
AL US
3/5/2020 2:53am
GregDVT wrote:
Keep in mind MotoGP bikes are 1 up 6 down.
RMT wrote:
Actually, they are all down to shift up through the gears. Neutral is at the bottom, so it’s N123456. You have to hit a button to...
Actually, they are all down to shift up through the gears.

Neutral is at the bottom, so it’s N123456. You have to hit a button to get into neutral.
I wish MX bikes had such a button!
1
3/5/2020 3:04am
I thought it was so you could jam it all the way down to first...without accidentally going too far to neutral...imagine going down the hills of...
I thought it was so you could jam it all the way down to first...without accidentally going too far to neutral...imagine going down the hills of Millville shifting down the gears and ending up in neutral every time...just a thought
Who the fuck shifts in to 1st on a MX bike when they're not anywhere but the pits??
1
3
Matt Fisher
Posts
3947
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Visalia, CA US
Fantasy
1084th
3/5/2020 2:22pm
Certain Bridgestone dirtbikes in the late 60's and early 70's would shift through all 6 gears, then on the next upshift would revert back to 1st gear. I would imagine that those riders got really good at keeping track of exactly what gear they were in.
1
zippytech
Posts
1119
Joined
9/8/2018
Location
Bethesda, OH US
3/5/2020 2:55pm
I think back in the old days Bridgestone made a bike where the gears could be cycled from top gear to neutral. Called it rotary shift.
Wow you are not spring chicken.. lol
hubbardmx50
Posts
2488
Joined
11/17/2016
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
3/5/2020 3:03pm
Try to race a KLX110 competitively and you’ll find out why
2
Dropbear
Posts
1571
Joined
5/7/2008
Location
Adelaide AU
3/6/2020 12:17am
Minarelli engines have 4 or 6 gears, and 20 neutrals.
3/6/2020 4:37pm
I think back in the old days Bridgestone made a bike where the gears could be cycled from top gear to neutral. Called it rotary shift.
zippytech wrote:
Wow you are not spring chicken.. lol
Haha. True. But I didn’t even know if those bikes existed until I saw one at a gas station in Maine.
jimmie
Posts
2256
Joined
8/21/2008
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
3/6/2020 6:56pm
I think back in the old days Bridgestone made a bike where the gears could be cycled from top gear to neutral. Called it rotary shift.
zippytech wrote:
Wow you are not spring chicken.. lol
Haha. True. But I didn’t even know if those bikes existed until I saw one at a gas station in Maine.
My first bike was a 1967 Kawasaki 120 with rotary shift patten. Hitting first from forth is no joke!Woohoo
1
ctbale
Posts
1076
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
Gustavus, AK US
3/6/2020 10:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2020 11:10pm
1966 Honda CM91 shift pattern was 1 up, then 1 full down for neutral, then down again for second, then down again for 3rd. I restored one for a buddy a few years back and I thought the shift forks or drum was messed up. But that was factory. So you have to double tap going up and down thru the gears. But hey, it was 1966 and it was a Honda. Never seen that before. I think it was "rotary" also. I read on some forum Honda said in the owners manual to ignore 1st unless you had a passenger or needed to go uphill. Smile

I had a Rockford Tora back in the day too!! (Or was it a Taka?)
1
kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
3/7/2020 4:28am
GCBC wrote:
KTM has completely fixed this issue of hitting N unintentionally.





also they have made it equally impossible to hit N intentionally.....
😂

Post a reply to: Why do bikes need to shift down for first gear?

The Latest