Why no status on Moreau?

scottydogmx 2/17/2020 7:54am
2/17/2020 7:54am
I feel so sorry for this young man, hopefully a full recovery is on the cards.
Who took his helmet off or is it ama rules to have the helmets with the inflatable pad in the top?
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OFalk280
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OFalk280 2/17/2020 8:18am
2/17/2020 8:18am
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
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MPJC
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MPJC 2/17/2020 8:18am
2/17/2020 8:18am
I obviously wasn't there with the medics but knowing what we know about the crash, the injury, and what we can see in the pictures, it looks terrible for them. Of course you always hope for the best for the rider, but in this case, if the long-term outcome is anything less, those medics will have to deal with a lot of scrutiny, and a lot of guilt. Not a job where you want to screw up. I'm an accountant. Pretty much any mistake I make can be fixed. That margin of error is not there for a first responder. I appreciate what they do and can't help but have empathy for them when things go badly - no matter who's fault. I can't imagine how they feel right now.

In all of this, obviously it's the rider who is the primary concern. Hoping for the best possible outcome.

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MPJC 2/17/2020 8:28am
2/17/2020 8:28am
OFalk280 wrote:
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider...
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over and slamming into the face of a jump head-first at high speed. If the red flag is denied in a case where there is a high risk of a spinal injury, then that points to a failure of someone to properly do their job.

Your post is speculation, but there are facts in this case. We know that there is a broken C7. We have pictures of the rider being moved. We have eyewitness accounts of the crash and what followed. I agree that we don't have all the facts, and that a medical drew deserves empathy and the benefit of the doubt. But that doesn't mean that the facts as known aren't concerning (to put it mildly), or that your suggestion that throwing a red flag in this case implies wanting to see red flags for every little crash isn't absurd.
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TxGuy
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TxGuy 2/17/2020 9:06am
2/17/2020 9:06am
THIS is the stuff that keeps me from competitively racing anymore. I get the itch now and again, but at 44, I think it's best I continue to just putt around. Prayers for this kid.
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spimx
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spimx 2/17/2020 9:25am
2/17/2020 9:25am
I am a paramedic the application of the long backboard has changed in the past 10 years but the cervical has not changed. He should have been supine or sitting at a 30 degree angle with a cervical collar and head immobilizers. He should have been moved with the long backboard or a scoop stretcher. A very basic assessment would have indicated that treatment/protocol. There is no way to know if his injuries were exascerbated of caused by the transfer to the ambulance.
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backinthesaddleagain 2/17/2020 9:31am
2/17/2020 9:31am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2020 9:40am
Hate seeing pics of someone injured, unless it can help with future situations, and even then its no less gut wrenching. That said, keeping him in my thoughts.
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OFalk280
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OFalk280 2/17/2020 9:36am
2/17/2020 9:36am
OFalk280 wrote:
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider...
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
MPJC wrote:
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over...
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over and slamming into the face of a jump head-first at high speed. If the red flag is denied in a case where there is a high risk of a spinal injury, then that points to a failure of someone to properly do their job.

Your post is speculation, but there are facts in this case. We know that there is a broken C7. We have pictures of the rider being moved. We have eyewitness accounts of the crash and what followed. I agree that we don't have all the facts, and that a medical drew deserves empathy and the benefit of the doubt. But that doesn't mean that the facts as known aren't concerning (to put it mildly), or that your suggestion that throwing a red flag in this case implies wanting to see red flags for every little crash isn't absurd.
We haven’t had a confirmation on C7 except from one source, that who’s to say is credible. There’s a good chance that’s the injury considering that’s what’s being thrown around a lot, but even that is still speculation man. Am I saying that the medical crew is blameless, if the facts come to light that they didn’t call for red? Not at all! But there is a whole lot of stuff being thrown around without a lot of facts being known. Literally all we know as fact is that the rider crashed, got injured, and that it is a spinal cord injury of some extent. That’s it.

I also did not deny that the pictures, and what is known is concerning. But there is a whole lot of people immediately crucifying the medical crew. Given the situation, there is at least one person somewhere that failed to do their job. Medical crew, track crew, someone. All I’m saying is don’t immediately go for the throat on the medical crew as everyone is doing here so far...
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hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/17/2020 9:41am
2/17/2020 9:41am
Can not believe what I'm seeing there.

Is that the regular crew?

That is so far past inexcusable ,

I would have come completely unglued if that was my son,completely

So,they are going to have an excuse and I'd like to know what it was



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MPJC
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MPJC 2/17/2020 9:48am
2/17/2020 9:48am
OFalk280 wrote:
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider...
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
MPJC wrote:
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over...
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over and slamming into the face of a jump head-first at high speed. If the red flag is denied in a case where there is a high risk of a spinal injury, then that points to a failure of someone to properly do their job.

Your post is speculation, but there are facts in this case. We know that there is a broken C7. We have pictures of the rider being moved. We have eyewitness accounts of the crash and what followed. I agree that we don't have all the facts, and that a medical drew deserves empathy and the benefit of the doubt. But that doesn't mean that the facts as known aren't concerning (to put it mildly), or that your suggestion that throwing a red flag in this case implies wanting to see red flags for every little crash isn't absurd.
OFalk280 wrote:
We haven’t had a confirmation on C7 except from one source, that who’s to say is credible. There’s a good chance that’s the injury considering that’s...
We haven’t had a confirmation on C7 except from one source, that who’s to say is credible. There’s a good chance that’s the injury considering that’s what’s being thrown around a lot, but even that is still speculation man. Am I saying that the medical crew is blameless, if the facts come to light that they didn’t call for red? Not at all! But there is a whole lot of stuff being thrown around without a lot of facts being known. Literally all we know as fact is that the rider crashed, got injured, and that it is a spinal cord injury of some extent. That’s it.

I also did not deny that the pictures, and what is known is concerning. But there is a whole lot of people immediately crucifying the medical crew. Given the situation, there is at least one person somewhere that failed to do their job. Medical crew, track crew, someone. All I’m saying is don’t immediately go for the throat on the medical crew as everyone is doing here so far...
That's fair.
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CalimeroFan 2/17/2020 9:49am
2/17/2020 9:49am
OFalk280 wrote:
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider...
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
I showed that picture to my girlfriend and asked her what she saw. First thing she says is “hè can’t move his legs, why the hell are they dragging him?” This is a f*cking joke man, bunch of idiots in a medica crew jacket. 🤮🤮🤮
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OFalk280
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OFalk280 2/17/2020 9:50am
2/17/2020 9:50am
OFalk280 wrote:
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider...
No one knows the situation yet. Way too much grief being thrown at the medical crew. There could’ve been a total lack of communication between rider and medic team, so do you guys want them to red flag every single practice and race for any sort of a crash, in order to provide the best care for each rider? Loses the front end in a corner we immediately need a red flag! Also, the medical team may have called for a red flag! Track crew could have denied them that. Is it better to leave the rider with a spinal cord injury on the track the whole practice session if they were denied a red flag, and risk him getting hit/landed on? I would think that would aggravate a spinal cord injury more than getting pulled off track. Each piece of my post is ALL SPECULATION which is what everyone in this thread is doing right now. We don’t have all the facts. I do agree with people calling for a thorough investigation though, in order to make this better for riders safety. Find out what and who went wrong and fix it....
MPJC wrote:
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over...
A red flag for every simple practice and race or any sort of crash? A track crew can easily tell the difference between a corner tip-over and slamming into the face of a jump head-first at high speed. If the red flag is denied in a case where there is a high risk of a spinal injury, then that points to a failure of someone to properly do their job.

Your post is speculation, but there are facts in this case. We know that there is a broken C7. We have pictures of the rider being moved. We have eyewitness accounts of the crash and what followed. I agree that we don't have all the facts, and that a medical drew deserves empathy and the benefit of the doubt. But that doesn't mean that the facts as known aren't concerning (to put it mildly), or that your suggestion that throwing a red flag in this case implies wanting to see red flags for every little crash isn't absurd.
And btw, if you don’t remember when Ken Roczen had his huge crash in 2017 at Anaheim (slamming headfirst into the face of a jump) they did not red flag the even there either. Am I saying it’s right that they did not? Not at all, but I’m saying that they don’t immediately pull the red when a rider slams headfirst into a jump.
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backinthesaddleagain 2/17/2020 9:54am
2/17/2020 9:54am
I remember watching when Marco Simoncelli was killed at the Malaysian Moto GP. The corner marshalls put him on a stretcher then dropped him as they ran with his stretcher. He was probably dead already due to the head and chest trauma but still brutal to see, especially with his father running to the scene.
OFalk280
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OFalk280 2/17/2020 9:57am
2/17/2020 9:57am
MPJC wrote:
That's fair.
As bad of a situation as it is (and I hope and truly pray that it turns out better than the initial speculation we are hearing), I hope that this helps to figure out a better way to handle rider crashes and injuries on track. There’s been plenty of scary situations through the years with someone not doing their job, or not doing it correctly. Kind of scary that it came to this to finally (hopefully) create some sort of resolution to some likely lack of communication issues that have been around for a while..
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 2/17/2020 10:01am
2/17/2020 10:01am
Guys, we know the medics had no malice here.... Put down the pitch forks for a few minutes folks..
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Finnish_Flash_62 2/17/2020 10:14am
2/17/2020 10:14am
Those pictures are horrible. If a rider can’t get off by his own power or assisted on his own feet, he should be moved on a backboard. I’ve seen people been carried like that a couple of times and it has never been praised.

Hopefully Brian makes a full recovery. Was really looking forward to see him race in the US.
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mxjeff575
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mxjeff575 2/17/2020 10:20am
2/17/2020 10:20am
I know we don't have all the facts, but the seriousness of the crash (head first into a jump face), how his legs look while dragging him off, and supposedly him saying he couldn't feel his legs, sure make the picture of him in the back of the mule with his helmet off and his head likely getting flopped around on the bumpy ride very disturbing.
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TSCHAM101
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TSCHAM101 2/17/2020 10:31am
2/17/2020 10:31am
this is horrible. so gutted for him.. and this gets me emotional man. we are all 1 crash away from this.

I hope he makes a complete recovery.

and just my 2 cents. if a rider cannot move under his own power in a Freaking rhythm section that section needs to be Red Cross Flag at minimum. Doesnt matter if its a concussion, a broken leg... whatever it may be.. To any of those who have crashed in a blind spot and been run over by somebody you know exactly how dangerous that is to the hurt rider and the unsuspecting rider.. I personally have friends who got hurt for a year(dislocated and broken pelvis, collerbone and more) because they hit a downed rider on the downside of a jump because they didnt know anyone was down...

Our sport is sketchy at best, we owe it to our own community to up hold safety and make the changes when necessary.
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FerCzD
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FerCzD 2/17/2020 10:33am
2/17/2020 10:33am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2020 10:47am
I am no expert and don't know how to manage a situation like this, all I have is a question hoping someone can give me some feedback. In one picture he is sitting on the mule, can't tell if he is having support to carry his own weight (above waist). From someone I know, that had a spinal injury; after the incident he was not able to carry his weight (sitting). He was carried out on a stretcher.

Does anybody know that if you have trauma like in this case is normal to be able to carry your own weight?

Hoping for the best to Brian.
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TxGuy
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TxGuy 2/17/2020 10:39am
2/17/2020 10:39am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2020 10:40am
back to the suggestion of warning lights. Super bright lights before these sections with YELLOW (be aware) and RED (perhaps skip the section? while medics triage the situation) - it would sure work during practice/qualifying.

During races, the RED could mean to roll the entire section perhaps. IT would buy the medics a few more minutes to get their arms around the situation without bikes jumping over their damn heads.

EDIT - give the switch to the Asterick team that are dotted throughout the course to make the call on the lights. I don't know - it's just an idea - poor kid. HATE reading all this. If I was his parent....eek.
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Black Diesel Bomber 2/17/2020 10:40am
2/17/2020 10:40am
FerCzD wrote:
I am no expert and don't know how to manage a situation like this, all I have is a question hoping someone can give me some...
I am no expert and don't know how to manage a situation like this, all I have is a question hoping someone can give me some feedback. In one picture he is sitting on the mule, can't tell if he is having support to carry his own weight (above waist). From someone I know, that had a spinal injury; after the incident he was not able to carry his weight (sitting). He was carried out on a stretcher.

Does anybody know that if you have trauma like in this case is normal to be able to carry your own weight?

Hoping for the best to Brian.
I was wondering the same thing. In that photo it doesn't look like he's got a pair of "dead legs" if you will. I would think his boots would be flopping off the end of the step like wet spaghetti, so hopefully he had feeling in them at this stage and he's just experiencing swelling at the moment.
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Black Diesel Bomber 2/17/2020 10:45am
2/17/2020 10:45am
TxGuy wrote:
back to the suggestion of warning lights. Super bright lights before these sections with YELLOW (be aware) and RED (perhaps skip the section? while medics triage...
back to the suggestion of warning lights. Super bright lights before these sections with YELLOW (be aware) and RED (perhaps skip the section? while medics triage the situation) - it would sure work during practice/qualifying.

During races, the RED could mean to roll the entire section perhaps. IT would buy the medics a few more minutes to get their arms around the situation without bikes jumping over their damn heads.

EDIT - give the switch to the Asterick team that are dotted throughout the course to make the call on the lights. I don't know - it's just an idea - poor kid. HATE reading all this. If I was his parent....eek.
The lights would be a great idea because you could have spotters up high who can activate the lights on that section of the track when they see a downed rider in danger.

But this gets tricky as well when trying to incorporate it.

Definitely possible though and I think it's a good suggestion because how many times have you seen a downed rider lay there with no flaggers in sight, or flaggers who are just standing there doing nothing?
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Wade221
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Wade221 2/17/2020 11:01am
2/17/2020 11:01am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2020 12:35pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
The lights would be a great idea because you could have spotters up high who can activate the lights on that section of the track when...
The lights would be a great idea because you could have spotters up high who can activate the lights on that section of the track when they see a downed rider in danger.

But this gets tricky as well when trying to incorporate it.

Definitely possible though and I think it's a good suggestion because how many times have you seen a downed rider lay there with no flaggers in sight, or flaggers who are just standing there doing nothing?
I need to go back and re-watch the moment, but there was part where a dude crashed in front of like three track crew/Alpinestars personnel, and was pinned under his bike, and it seemed like they just stood there staring at him and then were playing “rock, paper,scissors” to decide who was getting him. Obviously, the last part is not true, but they just stood there looking, then all them moved, then no one could decide what to do.. felt like an eternity
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Anton_514
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Anton_514 2/17/2020 11:38am
2/17/2020 11:38am
Without pinning blame to any one person or party, we really have to look at this situation as a way to make changes in the sport.

It's time to think about how are we going to come together for Brain in the same way we have so many others, and what can we do to prevent another chain of events from happening this way.

I heard from multiple people there was a chance of a language barrier being an issue, which could have made an already bad situation even worse. That Mathilde was there to help him is very, very important.

We take pride in how diverse the sport is, how riders come from all around the world to race here. Maybe one thing we should consider is having someone that speaks other languages on-site to help in times like this.

It doesn't have to be someone that gets a salary and travel per diem to go to every race, or even a fan of the sport. Just find some people in the local area that are fluent in other languages that we could pay a daily rate to keep at the ready should we ever need them.
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TxGuy
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TxGuy 2/17/2020 12:03pm
2/17/2020 12:03pm
The "Safety Component" that is going to happen some day and will require change:

Having the start followed by an immediate rhythm section. Someone is going to get landed on and literally be killed someday. I know we only have so much space for these tracks, but having SOMETHING to help the pack thin out before hitting the jumps should be a requirement.
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RonJon
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RonJon 2/17/2020 12:04pm
2/17/2020 12:04pm
Anton_514 wrote:
Without pinning blame to any one person or party, we really have to look at this situation as a way to make changes in the sport...
Without pinning blame to any one person or party, we really have to look at this situation as a way to make changes in the sport.

It's time to think about how are we going to come together for Brain in the same way we have so many others, and what can we do to prevent another chain of events from happening this way.

I heard from multiple people there was a chance of a language barrier being an issue, which could have made an already bad situation even worse. That Mathilde was there to help him is very, very important.

We take pride in how diverse the sport is, how riders come from all around the world to race here. Maybe one thing we should consider is having someone that speaks other languages on-site to help in times like this.

It doesn't have to be someone that gets a salary and travel per diem to go to every race, or even a fan of the sport. Just find some people in the local area that are fluent in other languages that we could pay a daily rate to keep at the ready should we ever need them.
Well Said Anton.
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Black Diesel Bomber 2/17/2020 12:09pm
2/17/2020 12:09pm
Anton_514 wrote:
Without pinning blame to any one person or party, we really have to look at this situation as a way to make changes in the sport...
Without pinning blame to any one person or party, we really have to look at this situation as a way to make changes in the sport.

It's time to think about how are we going to come together for Brain in the same way we have so many others, and what can we do to prevent another chain of events from happening this way.

I heard from multiple people there was a chance of a language barrier being an issue, which could have made an already bad situation even worse. That Mathilde was there to help him is very, very important.

We take pride in how diverse the sport is, how riders come from all around the world to race here. Maybe one thing we should consider is having someone that speaks other languages on-site to help in times like this.

It doesn't have to be someone that gets a salary and travel per diem to go to every race, or even a fan of the sport. Just find some people in the local area that are fluent in other languages that we could pay a daily rate to keep at the ready should we ever need them.
Makes perfect sense, especially if he does not speak english.
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keinz
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keinz 2/17/2020 12:12pm
2/17/2020 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2020 1:24pm
Language barrier or not. You don't drag a person who just crashed. You don't move him, until you know it's safe to do. PERIOD!!!
Every rookie in the local track knows that, for fuck sake
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GuyB
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GuyB 2/17/2020 12:15pm
2/17/2020 12:15pm
While there's no doubt that the handling of this particular situation doesn't look good, I also wasn't in on the inside of what they were dealing with.

That said, I do think we're much better off with the Alpinestars Mobile Medical crew being there every week than relying on local medical crews at every race.

In the meantime, let's keep our thoughts on a good recovery for Brian.
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GuyB 2/17/2020 12:20pm
2/17/2020 12:20pm
TxGuy wrote:
back to the suggestion of warning lights. Super bright lights before these sections with YELLOW (be aware) and RED (perhaps skip the section? while medics triage...
back to the suggestion of warning lights. Super bright lights before these sections with YELLOW (be aware) and RED (perhaps skip the section? while medics triage the situation) - it would sure work during practice/qualifying.

During races, the RED could mean to roll the entire section perhaps. IT would buy the medics a few more minutes to get their arms around the situation without bikes jumping over their damn heads.

EDIT - give the switch to the Asterick team that are dotted throughout the course to make the call on the lights. I don't know - it's just an idea - poor kid. HATE reading all this. If I was his parent....eek.
We already have that...generally for whoop sections and triples.

The bigger issue is, as long as the track is still green, guys are going to try and get in their qualifying times. The clock is ticking. There's always a push and pull about getting the track clear (so that riders can get clean laps), and safety (so medical crews can do what they do).

Personally, going forward I'd love to see more red flags during practice sessions in the interest of achieving both of those goals.
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