Will the big 4 ever make a 350?

roninho
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roninho 2/28/2018 11:12am
2/28/2018 11:12am
If i was running Kawa, Suzuki or Honda and be looking into introducing a new bike i would look into the youth market before i'd go for a 350cc. Short term they are missing out on like 25+% of the market because they don't have a 50cc-85cc and 125cc. Long term they are missing out on generations that grew up racing Ktm, Husky and Yamaha.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/28/2018 11:30am
2/28/2018 11:30am
roninho wrote:
If i was running Kawa, Suzuki or Honda and be looking into introducing a new bike i would look into the youth market before i'd go...
If i was running Kawa, Suzuki or Honda and be looking into introducing a new bike i would look into the youth market before i'd go for a 350cc. Short term they are missing out on like 25+% of the market because they don't have a 50cc-85cc and 125cc. Long term they are missing out on generations that grew up racing Ktm, Husky and Yamaha.
Yep, brand loyalty is HUGE!
BobPA
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BobPA 2/28/2018 11:42am
2/28/2018 11:42am
gsxr6 wrote:
Some guys don't want to ride a top fuel dragster. That's understandable. Also the 450s are a bit powerful for non pros on motocross tracks. Also...
Some guys don't want to ride a top fuel dragster. That's understandable. Also the 450s are a bit powerful for non pros on motocross tracks. Also understandable. All I know is the big four need to continue to innovate or it won't be long before Ktm and Alta are all that's left.( Points to recent 450 podium)
kiwifan wrote:
So on one hand you say the 450s are really too powerful but then say the big 4 need to innovate more to keep up with...
So on one hand you say the 450s are really too powerful but then say the big 4 need to innovate more to keep up with KTM and Alta? but KTM makes one of the most powerful motors in 450's (except the Honda tops it HP wise ...just). Just seems you contradict yourself a bit....can you clarify your comments?
According to the dyno numbers, the Katoom makes more than the Honda. But that’s just the facts Whistling

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2018-450-mx-bikes-on-the-dyno/
kiwifan
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kiwifan 2/28/2018 1:37pm
2/28/2018 1:37pm
gsxr6 wrote:
Some guys don't want to ride a top fuel dragster. That's understandable. Also the 450s are a bit powerful for non pros on motocross tracks. Also...
Some guys don't want to ride a top fuel dragster. That's understandable. Also the 450s are a bit powerful for non pros on motocross tracks. Also understandable. All I know is the big four need to continue to innovate or it won't be long before Ktm and Alta are all that's left.( Points to recent 450 podium)
kiwifan wrote:
So on one hand you say the 450s are really too powerful but then say the big 4 need to innovate more to keep up with...
So on one hand you say the 450s are really too powerful but then say the big 4 need to innovate more to keep up with KTM and Alta? but KTM makes one of the most powerful motors in 450's (except the Honda tops it HP wise ...just). Just seems you contradict yourself a bit....can you clarify your comments?
BobPA wrote:
According to the dyno numbers, the Katoom makes more than the Honda. But that’s just the facts Whistling

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2018-450-mx-bikes-on-the-dyno/
ok i was quoting the MXA one which said different...my bad
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 2/28/2018 5:31pm
2/28/2018 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/28/2018 7:07pm
Tuna wrote:
Do it.
ML512 wrote:
I’ll reach out tomorrow but I just noticed...they don’t actually have a current 450? 430 and 480 but no 450...I don’t have a 350 KTM or...
I’ll reach out tomorrow but I just noticed...they don’t actually have a current 450? 430 and 480 but no 450...I don’t have a 350 KTM or Husky to compare against their 350...guess we’ll give them the cc advantage and go 480! Laughing
Tuna wrote:
The 430 is the closest. The 480/500 is similar to the KTM/Husky 500/501.
I don't know if you had any luck with Beta USA getting a test bike? Here's a dyno chart from a '17 Beta 480 RR vs a '17 KTM EXC 500. Beta red and KTM green. The Beta peaks at about 62, and has a much smoother bottom end than the KTM, which is likely why KTM chose to use the Synerject FI system in the new 2 strokes that Beta has used all along. I haven't seen anything on the new '18's with dual injectors, not even sure if they are in the US yet.



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ob
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ob 2/28/2018 8:09pm
2/28/2018 8:09pm
I really want to know what updates the new 350 will have. Is it going to have that new style head like the new 450 engine?
ML512
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ML512 2/28/2018 9:32pm
2/28/2018 9:32pm
ob wrote:
I really want to know what updates the new 350 will have. Is it going to have that new style head like the new 450 engine?
Nope.
ob
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ob 2/28/2018 9:56pm
2/28/2018 9:56pm
ob wrote:
I really want to know what updates the new 350 will have. Is it going to have that new style head like the new 450 engine?
ML512 wrote:
Nope.
Thanks ML, are there any other engine changes for the19 models that you know of?
ob
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ob 3/2/2018 4:04pm
3/2/2018 4:04pm Edited Date/Time 3/2/2018 4:05pm
That's all vintage stuff now, but that beta is cool looking.
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Pirate421
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Pirate421 3/2/2018 5:03pm
3/2/2018 5:03pm
smashingpumpkins167 wrote:
I'm really hoping that this thread is undercover market research
I've got my fingers crossed, crossed, crossed.
Ha I wish! I just started this since I read that one line in dirtbike magazine and had a 350 at the time. I also have owned multiple brands and am not a brand loyalist and was thinking how pumped I would be if there were more options than just the Ktm and husky. The current 350s are amazing but competition breeds innovation and I believe that is the perfect displacement for a 4 stroke so I’d love to see more of them. Too None of the vital “industry insiders” haven’t chimed in with “info about bikes that they have, but can’t share or they’d lose their source”haha
endurox
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endurox 3/2/2018 7:25pm
3/2/2018 7:25pm
Big 4 combined have 24 race worthy dirt bikes. KTM has 17 models alone. Yamaha is the Mr. Big and maybe they might make a 350. The other Japanese companies I doubt would. The new higher HP Alta should do well. No air filter maintenance alone is good reason to buy one.
Pirate421
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Pirate421 3/2/2018 7:42pm
3/2/2018 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/2/2018 7:43pm
If you think about it, 50hp is really the sweet spot for the average consumer. 250f make 40-42hp and most riders would like a little more. 450s are 56-60hp and there is more than enough/too much power and could do with less rotating mass. 250 two strokes are 48-50 hp and just enough while still being light and fast and now Alta comes out with the MXR at 50hp to compete with a “350”. I’d say the perfect range is around the 50hp mark to be a good mix of fast, easy to ride, light feeling and reliable/lower maintenance.
Freakazoid
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Freakazoid 12/12/2018 11:01am
12/12/2018 11:01am
Suzuki could totally turn themselves around with a 350 motocross bike. I dont understand why they dont want the money. Of course it’s going to cost them money initially, but so do most (if not all) business expansions. The demand is there, the R&D is halfway done by KtM. For chrissakes, just design the engine and stick it in your 250f chassis to save money, tweak it to make it work all together well enough, and people will be waiting in lines out the door.
Freakazoid
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Freakazoid 12/12/2018 11:03am
12/12/2018 11:03am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I’d be right behind you! I would love a yz350
Racerxx wrote:
I hope you guys are talking about a YZ 350 two stroke I'd put down a deposit today
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I’d put down a deposit on a 350 2 stroke and 4 stroke. You can never have enough bikes!
Yes! Where can I sign up? Take my money Yamaha!
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fourfourone
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fourfourone 12/12/2018 11:11am
12/12/2018 11:11am
Freakazoid wrote:
Suzuki could totally turn themselves around with a 350 motocross bike. I dont understand why they dont want the money. Of course it’s going to cost...
Suzuki could totally turn themselves around with a 350 motocross bike. I dont understand why they dont want the money. Of course it’s going to cost them money initially, but so do most (if not all) business expansions. The demand is there, the R&D is halfway done by KtM. For chrissakes, just design the engine and stick it in your 250f chassis to save money, tweak it to make it work all together well enough, and people will be waiting in lines out the door.
You are incorrect. How does r&d by KTM being half done help Suzuki?
ledger
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ledger 12/12/2018 11:27am
12/12/2018 11:27am
Honda would kick booty with a 350.

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Pirate421
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Pirate421 12/12/2018 12:33pm
12/12/2018 12:33pm
They would be very far behind Ktm but if Yamaha and the other brands could make a 350 happen would it possibly kill off their 450s? Doesn’t look like it’s negatively impacted Ktm so far as they have been making a 350 for the last 8 years now. Isn’t it also their highest seller?
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TSCHAM101
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TSCHAM101 12/12/2018 1:05pm
12/12/2018 1:05pm
id pick up a honda 350 if they made one...
deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 12/12/2018 2:26pm
12/12/2018 2:26pm
I don't see the 350's being in the market. although there probably a great bike.. but it would end up being cheaper and easier to just offer Big Bore kits to there 250f range..

if anything, you'll probably see the 2strokes start to make a slight come back... Not take over, but back on the market.

The new YZ and KTM 125's sell like hot cakes now.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 12/12/2018 2:34pm
12/12/2018 2:34pm
TSCHAM101 wrote:
id pick up a honda 350 if they made one...
I’d have bought one 100% if it was the 19 250 platform. Bought a husky 350.
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Jrewing
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Jrewing 12/12/2018 2:35pm
12/12/2018 2:35pm
I think 450’s are going the way of the 500’s.
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 12/12/2018 8:44pm
12/12/2018 8:44pm
mb60 wrote:
If I had to bet on which 4 would make one. It would be Yamaha for sure.
I was thinking the exact same thing!
Monk
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Monk 12/12/2018 9:19pm
12/12/2018 9:19pm
Pirate421 wrote:
They would be very far behind Ktm but if Yamaha and the other brands could make a 350 happen would it possibly kill off their 450s...
They would be very far behind Ktm but if Yamaha and the other brands could make a 350 happen would it possibly kill off their 450s? Doesn’t look like it’s negatively impacted Ktm so far as they have been making a 350 for the last 8 years now. Isn’t it also their highest seller?
KTM has proven that a 250f bottom-end can be used, I would think development for a new head and cylinder would be fairly easy...

That being said, I have a Beta 350 in the garage (as well as a previous gen KTM 350 and new gen Husky 350) and even though I think the Beta has a better motor, everything else is is still a step behind.

.
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slothy
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slothy 12/13/2018 4:28am
12/13/2018 4:28am
Pirate421 wrote:
They would be very far behind Ktm but if Yamaha and the other brands could make a 350 happen would it possibly kill off their 450s...
They would be very far behind Ktm but if Yamaha and the other brands could make a 350 happen would it possibly kill off their 450s? Doesn’t look like it’s negatively impacted Ktm so far as they have been making a 350 for the last 8 years now. Isn’t it also their highest seller?
Monk wrote:
KTM has proven that a 250f bottom-end can be used, I would think development for a new head and cylinder would be fairly easy... That being...
KTM has proven that a 250f bottom-end can be used, I would think development for a new head and cylinder would be fairly easy...

That being said, I have a Beta 350 in the garage (as well as a previous gen KTM 350 and new gen Husky 350) and even though I think the Beta has a better motor, everything else is is still a step behind.

.
nice collection :D
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PJRAUS
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PJRAUS 12/16/2018 11:45pm
12/16/2018 11:45pm
Ive never ridden a 350 or any kind of KTM before until this weekend, reading this thread and tests on the latest 350 ktm/husky, combined with the issues im having with my 17 yz 450 has got me thinking about the 350 idea.
I love the motor on my 450, it has the mxa map and the gytr heavy flywheel and its quite the tractor yet it still pulls like rocket up top...cant complain about the motor its easy to use power and more than I could ever use...however...
The thing feels like an oil tanker compared to my 13 yz 250f and my yz 125...its so tall and tippy , you really notice the weight on quick direction changes.
Ive had the suspension lowered a bit both ends and re sprung and revalved..and finally got it working well for me....prior to this weekend I was ready to just give up on it and sell it...Im so much faster on my clapped out 125 that its ridiculous...
I recently got a couple of 15 min sessions on a 19 mod yz 250 f...loved it...so much faster and easier to ride than my 13
I was definitely faster on that 250 f than any of my own bikes...
So.....this weekend i was very fortunate to get a ride on a brand new 18 ktm 350.
The bike had been re valved and set up to suit its rider already, but we are about the same weight and pace. Also I only got 3 laps on it and had to take it out in the beginner class session so as not to take up ride time in the expert session from the bikes owner..therefore I was really only trail riding around amongst a track full of very slow riders...But!
The first impressions were very positive...It feels so much lighter, so much more nimble ,so willing to change direction..just felt like that 19 model yz 250f to me except a bit stronger from the bottom and through the mid...until that top end kicks in! Wow!
I really liked the suspension, loved the clutch and that front brake...that was an eye opener!..I could see myself going so much faster through corners on that bike....
I do wonder what it would be like on a chewed to shit race track at a state or national title round though...wringing its neck on a destroted track...
Anyway....Im seriously considering a ktm 350 now as an mx1 class bike....not that I really need one or anything ,but I'd sure like to have one!
How many sheep do I gotta shear to get a ktm 350? ???
Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 12/17/2018 12:16am
12/17/2018 12:16am
Honestly the rmz450 although slightly heavy is a super mellow fun bike. I don't need a 350
VRR7
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VRR7 12/17/2018 5:05am
12/17/2018 5:05am
Like the 200cc 2 stroke ...

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