Wondering why manufacturers don’t offer different frame sizes?

Thisusernameisavailable 12/8/2019 11:43am
12/8/2019 11:43am
WarrenMX wrote:
With all the different models that KTM does, I'm surprised they haven't come out with a 450 XL or something along those lines. As a tall...
With all the different models that KTM does, I'm surprised they haven't come out with a 450 XL or something along those lines.

As a tall guy myself, I know there are a lot of us that would love a bike more suited to our height. Seems like a missed opportunity for one of the manufacturers. I'd happily give up any brand loyalty for a bike that was made for my height.

The bicycle industry seem to be able to make it financially viable.
ando wrote:
Because on a bicycle when you build a larger frame size the only other thing that changes is the length of the chain and tube/cables for...
Because on a bicycle when you build a larger frame size the only other thing that changes is the length of the chain and tube/cables for brakes and shifters.

On a dirt bike you are changing engine mounts, shrouds, cables, chain, chain guides, seat, potentially exhaust length, electrical wiring looms and probably other stuff I haven’t thought of.
I can see that a bigger frame can be made without needing to change ANY of those items you've mentioned there.
A lengthened neck of the main frame, (leaving the engine cradle the same specs on all sizes of frame) a raised subframe (leaving exhaust the same with longer mounts on the subframe)

NOTHING else needs to change.
ando
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ando 12/8/2019 2:01pm
12/8/2019 2:01pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I can see that a bigger frame can be made without needing to change ANY of those items you've mentioned there. A lengthened neck of the...
I can see that a bigger frame can be made without needing to change ANY of those items you've mentioned there.
A lengthened neck of the main frame, (leaving the engine cradle the same specs on all sizes of frame) a raised subframe (leaving exhaust the same with longer mounts on the subframe)

NOTHING else needs to change.
I guess it depends on what is required from a larger frame. On bicycles pretty much every dimension changes except some of the critical angles. What you’re suggesting may not be much different from just putting on a set of bar risers and taller seat.
8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 12/8/2019 3:32pm
12/8/2019 3:32pm
Comparing it to bicycles, this is the reason a high end mountain bike is more than a new 450. In cycling, you are truly able to buy the "works" bike with works suspension, custom fitting (stems/seatpost/bars/frame size/"transmission" etc etc. If they did this in moto, a 450 would be super expensive. Also, bicycles have to be designed around proper position for pedaling rather than static footpegs. This changes everything when you extend top tubes and seat post height among other things.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 12/8/2019 4:23pm
12/8/2019 4:23pm
303MX wrote:
I’m sure the ultimate answer is that it’s not financially viable for manufacturers to offer different frame sizes for their 250s and 450s. But, why is...
I’m sure the ultimate answer is that it’s not financially viable for manufacturers to offer different frame sizes for their 250s and 450s. But, why is that?

I know dealers aren’t selling a ton of dirt bikes in general, so they wouldn’t want to stock multiple sizes of bikes. However, it seems like manufacturers and dealers could figure out a production run based on pre-sold/deposits that would give them some protection from excess or unsold inventory.

If manufacturers did offer a size smaller or larger than their stock frame to accommodate riders on either end of the height spectrum - would it be too hard to get the same ride characteristics of their stock bike to the other sizes or would it be too expensive to develop?

Anyway, just wondering if “one size fits most” is really the answer to the question of why you can’t get a different size frames.


Because they are motorcycles, not bicycles.
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GuyB
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GuyB 12/8/2019 4:24pm
12/8/2019 4:24pm
Just my take from having worked in both the moto and cycling industries...

In cycling, where you’re providing the power, efficiency and maximizing ergonomics is key. That’s why you have multiple frame sizes to accommodate everyone.

For moto, there are tuning options for the extremes in size (with the exception of maybe the extremely tall among you). Pegs, peg mounts, subframe mods, seats, and bar and bar mounts all have options. Here it comes down less to biomechanics, and more for comfort and the ability to hang on for 30+ 2.
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RF145
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RF145 12/8/2019 5:19pm
12/8/2019 5:19pm
Ideally, we get a time machine, go back to pre-1986 and all get factory rides. Then the factories will build us a bike to fit each of our bodies.
tzmike
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tzmike 12/9/2019 4:59am
12/9/2019 4:59am
AC Racing has or had subframes for sale
I would think that would be as good as you could get in the frame sizing dept. Since they produced them, it would be a simple jig change to get what you wanted. I speculate here
1983YZ125
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1983YZ125 12/9/2019 6:27am
12/9/2019 6:27am
Beta has their Xtrainer which is a 10% smaller frame. Seat high is around 35" if i recall.

Working on it is definitely a bit tighter in some areas but not too bad overall IMO.
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bh84
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bh84 12/9/2019 8:23am
12/9/2019 8:23am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Im mad on Trek bicycles- Ive often wondered why mx manufacturers don't offer a service similar to Trek's Project One service. Build it online to your...
Im mad on Trek bicycles- Ive often wondered why mx manufacturers don't offer a service similar to Trek's Project One service. Build it online to your spec, pay for it, pick it up from your local dealer in 30 days.
Pipes, wheels, handlebars, levers, pegs, forks, shocks, springs, tyres, hell, even your name and number on the plates!

It could be done.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
You can do exactly that with snowmobiles and SxS.

There's a cutoff date to do so, but it's possible.

Not exactly. With Ski-Doo you can spring order certain models and select 1 of 3 tracks, an extra suspension adjustment and whether or not you want adjustable skis. That's about it.
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 12/9/2019 11:19am
12/9/2019 11:19am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Im mad on Trek bicycles- Ive often wondered why mx manufacturers don't offer a service similar to Trek's Project One service. Build it online to your...
Im mad on Trek bicycles- Ive often wondered why mx manufacturers don't offer a service similar to Trek's Project One service. Build it online to your spec, pay for it, pick it up from your local dealer in 30 days.
Pipes, wheels, handlebars, levers, pegs, forks, shocks, springs, tyres, hell, even your name and number on the plates!

It could be done.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
You can do exactly that with snowmobiles and SxS.

There's a cutoff date to do so, but it's possible.

bh84 wrote:
Not exactly. With Ski-Doo you can spring order certain models and select 1 of 3 tracks, an extra suspension adjustment and whether or not you want...
Not exactly. With Ski-Doo you can spring order certain models and select 1 of 3 tracks, an extra suspension adjustment and whether or not you want adjustable skis. That's about it.
You can select more than a track and whether or not you want adjustable skis and suspension when you spring order. I was more referring to the spring order packages. They allow you to select different packages that have different price points.

Same platform, different components, etc. reflect the base starting price.

From there you can choose tunnel length, engine size, color, graphics/wrap, skis, track, windshield, saddlebags, handguards, etc.

There's a cutoff date to do so, but it allows the customer to get what they want at different price points. The manufacturer makes money, dealers make money, and you have a happy client when they pick it up.

They're not stuck walking into a dealership and selecting a stock model, ordering everything they want, wait for it to arrive, and then install it.

An option like that, I think would be great for the MX industry. It's possible. Just need one of the manufacturers to start offering it.
1983YZ125
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1983YZ125 12/11/2019 4:39pm
12/11/2019 4:39pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
You can select more than a track and whether or not you want adjustable skis and suspension when you spring order. I was more referring to...
You can select more than a track and whether or not you want adjustable skis and suspension when you spring order. I was more referring to the spring order packages. They allow you to select different packages that have different price points.

Same platform, different components, etc. reflect the base starting price.

From there you can choose tunnel length, engine size, color, graphics/wrap, skis, track, windshield, saddlebags, handguards, etc.

There's a cutoff date to do so, but it allows the customer to get what they want at different price points. The manufacturer makes money, dealers make money, and you have a happy client when they pick it up.

They're not stuck walking into a dealership and selecting a stock model, ordering everything they want, wait for it to arrive, and then install it.

An option like that, I think would be great for the MX industry. It's possible. Just need one of the manufacturers to start offering it.
Beta offers all of that. Order bike, choose parts, and before you pick up they have installed all of parts either at the warehouse or dealer.

There are a couple problems with this approach thru them:
- Close to MSRP on everything, however no labor.
- Limited aftermarket parts to choose from. Beta IMO has a decent overall selection for their bikes but everyone has their own preference on brands/product offerings which doesn't make financial sense to try and cover all offerings. Worth it for some who want to buy a bike prepped and ready to ride while others will want something different and need to customize on their own.
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