Cash for Clunkers.....WTF?

FishBone
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9/17/2009 6:34pm
newmann wrote:
I thought the program that all us taxpayers were paying for was designed to get old cars off the road and help the carmakers (didn't us...
I thought the program that all us taxpayers were paying for was designed to get old cars off the road and help the carmakers (didn't us taxpayers just bail some of them out as well?)in the process? Wouldn't that mean getting rid of (as in disposing of) the carcasses and not allowing salvage yards to purchase them and having 180 days to part them out before destroying what is left? Well run salvage yards will have very little left intact in that time frame. Hell, at this point the government is promoting keeping the same clunkers on the road for years to come. And I can't see that helping out any of the mfgs.

Discuss........
parts built here .. benefits jobs here …
Nerd
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9/17/2009 6:39pm
newmann wrote:
I thought the program that all us taxpayers were paying for was designed to get old cars off the road and help the carmakers (didn't us...
I thought the program that all us taxpayers were paying for was designed to get old cars off the road and help the carmakers (didn't us taxpayers just bail some of them out as well?)in the process? Wouldn't that mean getting rid of (as in disposing of) the carcasses and not allowing salvage yards to purchase them and having 180 days to part them out before destroying what is left? Well run salvage yards will have very little left intact in that time frame. Hell, at this point the government is promoting keeping the same clunkers on the road for years to come. And I can't see that helping out any of the mfgs.

Discuss........
FishBone wrote:
parts built here .. benefits jobs here …
Sure, so do we do it just by part numbers in the repair book?

Like, this wiring harness?



Or do we talk about the plastic tips, the wires themselves, etc.?
FishBone
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9/17/2009 6:47pm
American Automobile Labeling Act of 1992 .. already calculates this in some manner …
newmann
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9/17/2009 8:36pm
BUTCH wrote:
So you're are saying the salvage yards should go out of business? There are still a lot of old cars on the road and those people...
So you're are saying the salvage yards should go out of business? There are still a lot of old cars on the road and those people don't have the coin to shell out for a new car, they will need those used parts, right?
No, I don't think salvage yards should go out of business. But this program was supposed to help the auto industry by getting these so called "clunkers" off the road and replacing them with new and more fuel efficient vehicles. But by allowing salvage yards to buy "these" cars for a very minimal amount and strip them of parts and only scrapping or shredding the least desirable components the government is providing a massive stockpile of parts to keep huge numbers of these same clunkers on the roads for years to come. That is not going to do anything for the auto industry but have them begging for another clunker program in a few more years. Just seems counterproductive to what its main goal was in the first place.

The Shop

newmann
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9/17/2009 8:57pm
Tiki wrote:
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle. These...
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.
flarider wrote:
(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine) Tiki, in the second part I...



(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine)


Tiki, in the second part I agree with you.

In regards to hybrids, no one has ever addressed the lifespan of these batteries, cost to replace these batteries and the disposal procedure (and cost) of these batteries. What if the hybrid is in an accident? Do the batteries need to be dug out of the clump of metal before crushing and/or recycling? What if you can't get the battery cell out? What happens to all of these battery cells over the next few or dozen years? How are they disposed of? In an accident, does the battery cell leak? What does it leak? Is it corrosive? Does it harm the roadway or environment? What if a hybrid crashes into a body of water? Does it destry the marine life?
Toyota has a warranted lifespan of the hybrid battery units at ten years or 150000 miles. I believe the other mfgs. have similar warranties also. Hybrids in accidents? I've seen a few cars towed into my shop with the battery cables snipped by the fire department that responded to the accident. They have to rethink that with all the hybrids out there as there is some serious voltage running though those systems. Beware of the orange connectors!Woohoo About the cost of the battery, one for the lowly little Ford Escape will set you back a mere $7700.00.

What the eco-freaks are oblivious to is all the additional mining of rare minerals from the earth to mfg. the batteries. Or the environmental impact of all the additional manufacturing involved to build not only an internal combustion engine but also the electric motor , the regenerative braking systems, the additional electronics involved to make all this extra shit work or just the fact that ther has to be extra amounts of ozone depleting freon in the dual a/c system that keeps the battery pack cool in the rear floorboard of the lowly little Ford Escape. But, it's "GREEN"!!
newmann
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9/17/2009 9:06pm
flarider wrote:
How much of the "domestic" car has to made domestically?

I'm sure you or the nerd could correct me on the year or the content percentages but I believe it was 1994 that the Honda Accord had its status changed from import to domestic as over 75 % of the vehicle was manufactured and assembled here in the US. Also, at the same time the Ford Crown Victoria and its Mercury counterpart Grand Marquis were rebadged as imports. Kind of sucks to think about your retired union grandpa driving around in an import completely clueless to it all. Parts made in Mexico, assembled in Canada.
UpTiTe
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9/17/2009 9:09pm
Tiki wrote:
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle. These...
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.
flarider wrote:
(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine) Tiki, in the second part I...



(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine)


Tiki, in the second part I agree with you.

In regards to hybrids, no one has ever addressed the lifespan of these batteries, cost to replace these batteries and the disposal procedure (and cost) of these batteries. What if the hybrid is in an accident? Do the batteries need to be dug out of the clump of metal before crushing and/or recycling? What if you can't get the battery cell out? What happens to all of these battery cells over the next few or dozen years? How are they disposed of? In an accident, does the battery cell leak? What does it leak? Is it corrosive? Does it harm the roadway or environment? What if a hybrid crashes into a body of water? Does it destry the marine life?
newmann wrote:
Toyota has a warranted lifespan of the hybrid battery units at ten years or 150000 miles. I believe the other mfgs. have similar warranties also. Hybrids...
Toyota has a warranted lifespan of the hybrid battery units at ten years or 150000 miles. I believe the other mfgs. have similar warranties also. Hybrids in accidents? I've seen a few cars towed into my shop with the battery cables snipped by the fire department that responded to the accident. They have to rethink that with all the hybrids out there as there is some serious voltage running though those systems. Beware of the orange connectors!Woohoo About the cost of the battery, one for the lowly little Ford Escape will set you back a mere $7700.00.

What the eco-freaks are oblivious to is all the additional mining of rare minerals from the earth to mfg. the batteries. Or the environmental impact of all the additional manufacturing involved to build not only an internal combustion engine but also the electric motor , the regenerative braking systems, the additional electronics involved to make all this extra shit work or just the fact that ther has to be extra amounts of ozone depleting freon in the dual a/c system that keeps the battery pack cool in the rear floorboard of the lowly little Ford Escape. But, it's "GREEN"!!
Or the impact it will have when all these batteries are replaced and thrown out, but youre right, its green.
Nerd
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9/17/2009 9:32pm
flarider wrote:
(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine) Tiki, in the second part I...



(on the first part, I think that's mostly steam as it's a water silicate blend that's cooking in the engine)


Tiki, in the second part I agree with you.

In regards to hybrids, no one has ever addressed the lifespan of these batteries, cost to replace these batteries and the disposal procedure (and cost) of these batteries. What if the hybrid is in an accident? Do the batteries need to be dug out of the clump of metal before crushing and/or recycling? What if you can't get the battery cell out? What happens to all of these battery cells over the next few or dozen years? How are they disposed of? In an accident, does the battery cell leak? What does it leak? Is it corrosive? Does it harm the roadway or environment? What if a hybrid crashes into a body of water? Does it destry the marine life?
newmann wrote:
Toyota has a warranted lifespan of the hybrid battery units at ten years or 150000 miles. I believe the other mfgs. have similar warranties also. Hybrids...
Toyota has a warranted lifespan of the hybrid battery units at ten years or 150000 miles. I believe the other mfgs. have similar warranties also. Hybrids in accidents? I've seen a few cars towed into my shop with the battery cables snipped by the fire department that responded to the accident. They have to rethink that with all the hybrids out there as there is some serious voltage running though those systems. Beware of the orange connectors!Woohoo About the cost of the battery, one for the lowly little Ford Escape will set you back a mere $7700.00.

What the eco-freaks are oblivious to is all the additional mining of rare minerals from the earth to mfg. the batteries. Or the environmental impact of all the additional manufacturing involved to build not only an internal combustion engine but also the electric motor , the regenerative braking systems, the additional electronics involved to make all this extra shit work or just the fact that ther has to be extra amounts of ozone depleting freon in the dual a/c system that keeps the battery pack cool in the rear floorboard of the lowly little Ford Escape. But, it's "GREEN"!!
UpTiTe wrote:
Or the impact it will have when all these batteries are replaced and thrown out, but youre right, its green.
And on top of that, I read studies recently that people who drive hybrids typically drive MORE than they would if they didn't have a hybrid, thus offsetting the savings in gas and CO2 emissions.
Blake
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9/19/2009 9:38am
flarider wrote:
The law required in the CARS program to kill the engine as shown below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks VIN numbers were required to be submitted as part of the...
The law required in the CARS program to kill the engine as shown below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks








VIN numbers were required to be submitted as part of the program and the vehicle was required to be scrapped




Tiki wrote:
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle. These...
All that smoke being emitted... Thats gotta be good for everyone to breath. It probably produced less particulates and smog when it went the lifecycle.

These green people are retards. Hybrid cars will fill landfills with more batteries in the years to come causing more hazardous waste then a combustion motor.
People in the know, know this program is a crock of shit.

Ask those people what that shit smells like too.
You're spot on.

You should see the perfectly good vehicles that have come in. Maseratis, people couldnt sell, classic cars worth 20-30 grand but can't sell cause people are broke, hell one guy brought ina damn near new Willys that had been garaged all these years.
9/19/2009 5:26pm
I wonder how many of the cars sold under the CFC program will end up as repo's ? If you were driving a clunker ,chances are it was because you really could not afford a new car in the first place.
KAWboy14
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9/20/2009 5:51am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2009 5:51am
flarider wrote:
Foreign car companies make cars in the US and employ thousands of US Citizens One of my best friends works for JM Family, a company of...
Foreign car companies make cars in the US and employ thousands of US Citizens

One of my best friends works for JM Family, a company of 4000+ employees that imports and distributes Toyota's in the SE US....and there are more companies like them nationwide. Then you have all those foreign car dealers in cities across the US, large and small, that employ and support their local economies and charities....then you have all the transporters who get the cars to the dealers and so on and so on and so on


Kalish, the Program allotted $3B to the program. US dealers sold almost 700,000 new cars so lets guess an average sale price of $25K per car would equal $17,500,000,000 in sales and The U.S. Transportation Department says the program also created or saved about 42,000 jobs in the United States.

FishBone wrote:
but why wasn’t there a domestic content provision .. for qualifying cars ?
because if they did that.....most of the domestic cars are manufactured outside of the u.s.a.

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