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Good video. I could rant on this for hours!
https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-farmers-fighting-big-tec…
https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/motherboard-farmers-fighting-big-tec…
Every manufacturer had their own communications protocol and unique interface/software.
Leaving everyone at the mercy of the manufactures/dealers.
it seems that you should be able to fix it to "use" it.
TM
The Shop
Agco, Case Ih, Claas etc. are all in the same position.
We have had to get a tech to come out & plug into our McCormick before. First try he couldn't find his cable when he got here & had to come back another day. Turned out to be a sensor that was a 10 minute fix. Which I think he was suspecting but guess had to verify first - maybe because he had to order the part & wanted to be sure he was ordering the right one. It wasn't an outlandish service call fee, like maybe $100 (half hour each way) - but the $1k mentioned above is into ludicrous territory. If service call fees were reasonable, calling a tech out would be not that big a deal, as long as they could get there in a reasonable amount of time and it led to the problem being fixed. But $1k - that's bordering on extortion stuff.
In that video, they conveniently left out how Deere and the dealer can remote into the machine diagnostics through ServiceAdvisor and provide the operator with the error codes in a matter of minutes after initiating the call. This is similar for all of the major brands.
Most of the operator-based error codes can already be retrieved through the software diagnostics and service manuals that indicate what the error code means and how to repair it.
The guys that are complaining are the ones who think they should be able to flash their own CU's, software, etc. which is all setup from the factory based on the machine serialization. Again - no different thatn Auto.
There are solutions in motion that should alleviate these issues by 2020.
System architecture on modern machinery is extremely complex. One large tractor or combine might have several hundred designs that are available and then the order code dictates which components are needed. Each electrical component is then manufactured with a unique scheme that allows the overall architecture to work. I think most customers have the impression that these parts that are just off-the-shelf parts that can be ordered with a phone call. It's not that simple anymore.
Even right now, the highly trained technical staff at dealerships still have to work directly with the OEM to make sure the parts they order (after a diagnoses) are programmed according to the machine's architecture.
I am willing to bet that (on complex repairs) if you put the proper tools in the hand of the farmer/operator, they still aren't going to be able to solve the problem due to the general complexity of the overall system
I think the "complexity" is as much about making money for the OEM's then it is about productivity or truly providing a better product. It's basically like a black box. And when it stops working the OEM's are the only ones who can fix it. Great business model if you can get away with it.
When I first heard of this, the company mentioned starting it was John Deere.
I believe emissions is the crux of the argument here. I don’t think Deere or any other mfg cares if you replace a prox switch for a harvester arm or the dealer does. I do believe they care that the exhaust treatment systems are intact and functioning as designed. Allowing access to engine management systems could lead to something along the lines of the guy in the ‘06 lifted 2500 Ram diesel billowing black smoke out the coffee can exhaust. We’ve all seen them.
For Ag use this is an extreme example, but, when a machine goes into derate in the middle of harvest season because the SCR melted down because an EGR cooler ruptured (have seen this on CAT 982’s multiple times,) the service bill is north of $15k in parts alone, how many operators would go for a delete program and shit can the emission components if it was possible?
It happens with on the road diesels all the time. Guys get hit with sticker shock when things go bad with their trucks. . Tier 4 emissions is basically the equivalent of the newest diesel trucks you can buy off the lot, and Ag and off-road equipment has had it for the last few years.
Pit Row
The Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act, sometimes also referred to as Right to Repair, is a name for several related proposed bills in the United States Congress and several state legislatures which would require automobile manufacturers to provide the same information to independent repair shops as they do for dealer shops.
Versions of the bill generally have been supported by independent repair and after-market associations and generally opposed by auto manufacturers and dealerships. First considered at the federal level in 2001, but no provisions were adopted until the Massachusetts legislature enacted Right to Repair bill H. 4362 on July 31, 2012. This law was passed in advance of a binding ballot initiative referendum which appeared on Massachusetts's statewide ballot also on November 6. The measure passed with 86% voter support.[1] Because there were now two different laws in effect, the Massachusetts legislature enacted a bill, H. 3757 to reconcile the two laws. That bill was signed into law on November 26, 2013. Early in 2014, the Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association, Coalition for Auto Repair Equality, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, and the Association for Global Automakers signed a Memorandum of Understanding that is based on the Massachusetts law and which would commit the vehicle manufacturers to meet the requirements of the Massachusetts law in all fifty states.
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