Posts
5576
Joined
3/28/2012
Location
TN
US
Saw the posts in IWreckALot's thread, and my AC is also out, so I decided to start a separate thread. 25 yr old Trane unit finally shit the bed. Given the Trane made it 25 years, I'm considering getting another one, but also looking at Lennox, Amana, and Carrier. Since the AC is so old, I was told I'd need a new updated furnace to be compatible with the new AC unit. They could retrofit, but it was only $600 cheaper than replacing it all. What's everyone's preference on brand? Any other tips/suggestions/experiences on AC replacement welcome.
They are huge though. Replaced handlers, lines and duct as well so should be good to go for awhile.
The Shop
Only thing I don't like about the Trane units is the outdoor coil are all aluminum.
Instead of copper tubing run thru aluminum fins.
Hard to clean, they get a leak from a pebble off the lawnmower or dog piss, the whole unit is toast.
Copper tube you can fix.
But, besides that Trane is good. Lennox is good, they kinda do things their own way, but a quality piece of equipment.
Goodman has the worst rap, but in reality it's a not bad brand.
But really, Imo, Carrier is the best.
Especially in their top of the line stuff.
Gas furnaces, I'm assuming that's what you have, the old stuff with the metal flue pipe, gives tops 80%.
That is, for every dollar of gas that goes into it, 80 cents comes out the vents as heat, the rest is wasted and goes up the flue.
The new stuff, they have pvc plastics flues, because they suck the heat out of the fire twice, before it goes leaves the furnace. These are what is known as condensing furnaces. Because the fire and fumes In the the furnace are cooled so much, the gases start shedding moisture, hence the need for plastic flues.
These furnaces are 90 to 98% efficient.
Carrier has 4 grades of equipment. Comfort series, Performance series. Infinity series. Green speed series.
You can still get a Comfort series with the metal flue, and 80, but really, why?
The 80% comfort is okay, prob what you have .
The 92 or 95 can be had in the comfort series also. Standard blower, single stage gas valve.Even tho it's the basic model, still better than what you have.
The best furnace i think, is the Performance series with a 2 stage gas valve. Really quiet blower, starts off slow and ramps up. Hard to hear them run. The 2 stage gas valve, gives 96%. Runs on first stage, or half power, for 10 minutes. Thermostat isn't satisfied in 10 minutes it goes into high heat, or full capacity, like an afterburner.
The Infinity line, variable blowers and variable gas valves, computer ready to talk to the ac unit, a bit too complex imo.
He Greenspeed, variable everything, Internet ready, way to complex for me.
Outdoor units. 13 seer is standard. Seer is like mpg in cars. It will take maybe 7 years for an 18 seer unit to realize the difference in savings vs a 13.
Then, you can put a heat pump outside instead of a straight ac unit. This is called a hybrid unit. The heat pump
Has a valve that makes he freon goe backwards. One way for central ac, the other for heat. They heat the house in spring and fall, it gets real cold, the gas furnace kicks in.
Again, kinda complex, but in the long run, the best bills.
A 95%, variable speed blower, with a 2 stage gas valve, hooked up to a 14 to 16 seer unit, best choice imo.
Everyone makes em, one way or another.
Cost, 5 to 8 grand installed.
Good luck dude.
Yeah Wreck. Nothing wrong with a Concord. I put one in for a guy, he had bought it, hell, 3 years ago.
He loves it.
Different colors, but really the same thing..........
Lennox,Armstrong, Concord.
Carrier, Payne, Bryant
Trane, American Standard
Rheem. Ruud
Goodman owns Amana, but they really are kind of different.
Concord has a pretty good spread selection wise.
Get the model number and google it. It will all be right there.
5 ton is the biggest unit, capacity wise, for residential use.
It's a big ass ac unit, will do a big house,
Just tell the guy to make sure the furnace has a 5 ton blower, and enought ductwork to handle it.
That fucker needs 20- 6 inch vent lines.
Or the equivalent in bigger lines.
An easy, crude but ballpark way to see how much ac you need, is walk thru the house.
A kitchen, 2 vents, living room, 2 or 3. Big bedroom, 2, regular bedroom 1.
Count them up
4 - 6 inch round pipes using 4x10 or 4 x 12 floor vents takes 1 ton of ac.
You count up 8 vents, that's 2 tons.
10 vents, 2.5 tons
12 vents is a 3 ton unit.
Stay within a half a ton either way, over sizing too much can cause just as much heartache as under sizing.
Thanks!!
That's a lot of house for 2 people.
The bonus room on the 2nd floor kinda complicates things, if that's the only top floor room that you are gonna
use as much as the first floor.
Usually, a guy would just put 2 systems in there. Top and bottom. Both on their own stat.
Or one big system in the basement or first floor, with the ductwork laid out so you could zone each floor.
You still have 2 thermostats, with dampers in the main duct lines going to each floor.
The top floor gets hot in the summer, the ac comes on and the botyom floor damper closes.
Dampers default in the open position.
This is the less expensive way to go.
Just make sure the duct guy puts the zone dampers where you can access them.
Future service is a bum when you have to cut out Sheetrock to replace a damper motor.
In the utility room, right off the furnace, nice and neat so you can see them move is good.
But, the bonus room, if you set the top floor back to save energy, the bonus room is gonna follow suit.
Unless you duct that room in with the first floor.
Which might get kinda hot in the summer, because it's on the first floor system, where it's cooler.
I dunno, I'd just 2 zone it, with bonus room on 2nd floor zone, or just include it in the top floor system.
You go with 2 syatems, and the top floor furnace goes in the unconditioned attic, go with an 80% furnace.
They don't make water. The 95% furnaces do, which in the winter can be a real hassle when it gets real cold and
h2o starts freezing up.
Put a pull down staircase in for the attic access, and make sure the attic furnace is like right there, with plywood floor
In front of it so yo can work on it without putting a foot thru the ceiling.
Again, I'd go with the 2nd tier of equipment, variable speed blowers, 2 stage gas valves, 15//16 seer straight ac units.
Return air inlets in every room, except kitchens and bathrooms.
Good luck guy, building a house is a big thing, you have a massive deal on your hands.
Make sure that equipment gets registered with Amana, it don't, it messes with the warranty.
Lifetime on compressor, that's a hell of a deal.
New linesets, drain pan, ac and furnace, 5,400, you did good guy.
One other idea I've thought of was two units plus one of the Mitsubishi wall/ceiling units for the bonus. Is that a crazy idea?
When you say 2nd tier does that mean the Carrier Greenspeed model?
Make sure it's a heat pump.
2nd tier, Carriers Performance Series. Carrier goes, basic, or builders model, is the Comfort series, then Performance,
then Infinity, then Greenspeed.
That kind of neighborhood yeah, you see the upper end stuff, but really, most don't know the difference.
2 systems, Performance, hell, you're gonna spend 15 to 20 k.
You go Greenspeed you could get close to 30, 35k.
And then a ductless mini split wall unit, 4 to 5 k.
That's a lot of coin, which will never be recouped in the 7 years you live there in lower electric bills.
I'd go Performance grade, and if you want razz le dazzle for the next buyer throw Carrier Core thermostats,
or Honeywell Pro 8000 thermostats that are internet capable in there.
Check and adjust the temp in the house off your phone when in Florida.
That's what people are wanting lately.
Carriers ductless mini splits, the wall mounted units, are made by Toshiba, with a Carrier sticker on them.
But are just as good, if not better then the Sanyos or Fujitsu, or Mitsubishi.
Try and keep all the equipment the same, it just looks better when you see it that way imo, instead of a cobbled
deal that was thrown together. Especially with the home you guys are going for.
I've been eyeing a Nest ever since they came out. If a similar thermostat came with a system I would of course use it. If it doesn't, what's your opinion of the Nest?
Pit Row
I feel ya.
One system, 2 zones is gonna be the cleanest most economical way out.
The mini split for the bonus, you can add that anytime down the line.
Nest, we put a lot of them in when they first came out years ago.
We had a lot of issues with them, but they have been around for awhile now and I would think have the bugs worked out.
I dunno, to me, if the equipment you decide on makes their brand of stat I'd go with that.
Just looks better.
That being said, Honeywell has been the standard for a long, long time.
Oem brand or Honeywill is where I would go.
Dirty Britches is a good example. Everything is Lennox.
He's happy, that thermostat has been tested and approved to the point the OEM has their name on it.
Some of that stuff, I think Nest does it, you can program it to monitor your cell phones location, and
it senses when you are coming home. You get within a certain distance, it brings on the furnace or ac before you even
get there, having time to get the house nice and comfy as you walk in the door.
But, like DBritches guy said, they are complex, a lot can go wrong and poof, you got nothing.
No heat, no ac.
You're depending on the Internet, hell, some Carrier stuff depends on the local weather reports to let your heat pump
know, online or wifi, when to run and when not to run.
Ya, a lot of it is good, but in reality, it ain't for everybody.
(.......god damn it...all i want is one of those round ones that you turn and heat comes out!!)
https://youtu.be/KC1GGNPj2Ls
https://www.ecoventsystems.com/
a more conventional 2 zone system could be installed rather easily. That is, a main trunk line for each floor tapping
out of the bonnet, or top of the furnace, sized for a common, motorized damper.
Well maintained, you shouldn't need anything fixed for the first 10 years or so.
Why don't you see what the rocket guy wants for 20 of those registers, and the modem, I'd like to know the cost.
If he won't sell retail, I'd be happy to see for you.
Post a reply to: New AC units