'76 CR125 Elsinore race build help... now with links

Thanks for the tip. I 'll message him. Every time I do a net search for a trick part or info on an Elsinore I would end up finding Vital threads. I usually found the best info and was always impressed on how the people here helped get racers going with their bikes.

Guess I shouldn't have been surprised. Even with all the shenanigans that go on over on the moto-related board, Vital has one hell of a brain trust of everything motocross going on here!

Thanks paradigm. Good info. The bike is on the second bore and it is fresh. Other than that it has only been lightly ridden and bone stock.

I may have found a Thor swing arm and I have a line on an FMF pipe, a webco Head or a FMF porcupine. I know the FMF head is more show than go, but damn that porcupine head looks bad ass. Always wanted one when I raced my '74 Yamaha mx at Saddleback and kept getting smoked by the FMF Honda Elsinore crowd.

I will take your advise on the race gas. I moved from So Ca to Arizona and can get VP locally. I run it in my Husky 2s now.

If I don't get the bike ported, would the Mikuni carb help any? Do I need to change the stock throttle cable to work with a Mikuni?

In all truthfulness, I intend to race it for fun and won't be hammering it every weekend or worrying about going after a Championship. I've done that and I am over that kind of racing. I am going after a build that will make the bike fairly fast, reliable and suspension that works and of course looks trick!

Like a lot of old mx'rs, at 16yrs old I never had the money back then to race the good stuff . Now that I am older I have the ability to afford the good stuff and I have this strange desire to go back and do it again. I've been fortunate enough to stay in shape racing Mountainbikes and have raced (all be it some years only a few times in a year) for every year from when I started at 16 yrs old until last year at 59yrs old. Hopefully my fitness and 40+ years of racing will make up for a race motor that is expensive and always has the chance of blowing up

This is me on my Husky 300 racing at Pala last year

Thanks everyone. I know motocrossers all have strong opinions and so do I. At almost 60 years old now I pretty much take everything with a grain of salt and know that the truth always bubbles to the top.

Clearly I need to get a hold of Joe Newman and get his input.

I appreciate your advice paradigm, I was actually considering buying the Mikuni from the guy on ebay and you saved me some cash for sure. Thanks...

As far as building this bike goes, at my age, I find it a little easier to just be straight up honest. I had a good run... I survived over 49 years of racing and riding on tracks in So Cal. I was lucky enough to race or ride at Saddleback, Carlsbad, OCIR, Indian Dunes, Ascott, Cycle Haven, Castaic, DeAnza, Corona Raceway Under the lights, Starwest, Madera, Freemont Raceway, E Street in Marysville, Comp Park, Competitive Edge, Perris raceway, 395, Elsinore, Pala, Milestone, Cahuilla and Rynoland. I even managed to race in New York (Long Island MX) and France (retro enduro in the South)

For me, I was blessed enough to live a dream...

I never got faster than a solid So Ca Intermediate and I never had aspirations of being a Pro (talent got in the way of that). Now, I just want to build the bike I never had. I don't want to be an AHRMA Champion, hell, I don't even understand all the classes.

I do want to build a bad ass Elsinore that will get me around a local track at a Vintage race with out blowing up or throwing me over the bars. My experience has given me the knowledge to know the difference between a terrible, OK, good and holy shit that is good suspension and motor.

Not going for a pro bike build, more between a good and a holy shit that is a good bike build. Admittedly, I am not so worried about getting a hole shot every race as I am about building a trick looking bike that does what it is supposed to do and I have fun racing it.

I tell you guys all this because I want this thread to be fun and informative. Not an ego driven argument on how to build the fastest bike to win every race.

I came to Vital because egos aside, I believe the wealth of information here on all things moto can not be matched.

I am hoping this post will not only help me build an awesome vintage race bike, but provide other people who stubble on to this thread after doing a net search good information on how to build an '76 Elsinore to race.

Thanks again to everyone offering advice. I can't wait to get this bike done and spin a few laps on the track.

Damn I am lucky.

Exactly. I got rid of all of my trophies except one... I kept the first trophy I earned with a 1-1. 1980 Saddleback Saturday, 250 novice class, 10 riders in my class combined with expert minis. What I remember most from that race was the kid who won the mini expert was harder than hell to pass. I was on a Maico 250. He was on a YZ 80.

After the race he came up to me and said he wanted to pass me but the rocks my Maico was throwing hurt too much. Not going to lie, he was there the whole race and I might have clutched it a few more times than normal coming out of the turns. lol

I didn't care that it was minis I beat. I finally went 1-1. I had arrived!!!


Now about that bike...

I found a Thor swing arm for a '76 with the correct moved up mounts.

I found three heads all in good shape - FMF porcupine, Webco and a DG. I heard the Webco performed best, DG cooled the best and the porcupine was really not that great of a head as it didn't cool as well as the others. I guess because I think the porcupine looks cool, I am leaning towards that - unless the vintage guys here tell me that choosing the porcupine over the other two is a really bad idea.

Exhaust - Found an FMF pipe in good condition, however, it is for a '73-'75. It would require me changing the exhaust flange from the wider opening of the '76 to the smaller opening '73-'75 exhaust flange. Is this correct? Will there be a drop in HP, top end, less lower end, more lower end? If the '73 FMF pipe and smaller exhaust flange is going to rob me of HP not just move the power band, I would probably just throw a PFR exhaust on it and call it a day?

I will probably leave the barrel alone, but if going to a Mikuni from the Kiehn makes the bike faster, easier to ride or both? I would definitely do that. Do I need to buy a throttle cable that works with a Mikuni or will using the stock throttle cable work?

Suspension - I will have Race Tech go through the forks. I like what I read about their twin shocks, but think they are a little pricey and might be better than I need. How about Worx Performance. Are they pricey? Do they work well? I am partial to them as I ran Works Performance on my Maico and liked them. Don't know about the CR125 or what works. Advice here would be much appreciated.

The stock rims are perfect, the spokes are not (completely oxidized and rusty). I would prefer to just re-lace the stock wheels as I really don't plan on racing the bike more than a few times a year. Is this a mistake? What kind of spokes? Who would you use? Powder coat the hubs while they are apart? Is there a one stop place that can do powder coating and re lacing with good spokes?

Should I stay with the stock 428 chain or swap over to a 520?

Thanks again.

I really. really, really appreciate you taking the time to write that all out. I have to admit, finding the parts, puting it all together and making your bike an expression of your own personal style is one of the things I enjoy most

I have had Dubya build wheels for me before, I am going to check in with them and see what they can do.

Thanks again

Awesome! Some great links. Some I discovered on my searches, some new. Perfect time for me to skeins time reading on the net. Snowed a little and it cold outside.

And OldPro, thanks for all the good info. I already know that the way most Vintage organizations split up the classes the '76 Elsinore is at an disadvantage compared to some of the bikes at the end later years for the class. I have decided to keep it in the shorter / stock travel range and just try and make sure the suspension works well.

I figured with newer technology for chains and the newer hard anodized alloy sprockets staying with a 428 vs 520 might be a better as it is lighter.

Thanks again

Great advice! I will use the old chain until I have it dialed in in the gearing.

100% Agreed I plan on running a stock barrel with cleaned up porting, a 32 Mikuni, a head and a pipe. Admittedly, the head and pipe are more for show than go, but that is part of what it is about for me - making the bike my own. Speaking of which...

I found a Thor swing arm. It is on it's way from the UK. Go figure. The guy had a FMF porcupine head in great shape and offered it to me for a reasonable price, but I read that Dave Miller was making porcupine heads and pipes again for the CR125 so I called him to see if I could get a brand new one...

First, let me say this. In So Ca where I grew up racing, it was all about DG & FMF, but when you talked to the guys at the races back then, there were always three guys who came up as the three who were leading the way - Dave Miller of Miller Mano and Rudy and Dean Dickinson of R&D Racing. They had innovative ideas and their bikes were super fast and they worked! Hearing that one of the tuners from the '70's I looked up to was still at it, what better person could I call I thought. Don't get me wrong, so far this has been everything I have been hoping for. Racers and vintages guys helping me with this bike and sharing their knowledge and passion, but I have to take a minute and tell you what an awesome guy Dave Miller is.

You all probably know Daves' health took a turn for the worst (Go here for info and to help him) and I wasn't sure I could get through, but the idea he was making FMF Porcupine heads and pipes got me interested enough to call. I called and he answered...

I told Dave what I was doing and was interested in buying a porcine head. He confirmed that yes, he was making porcupine cr125 heads and told me the story of how he got Donny's permission. Unfortunately, his heads are for the '73-'75 CR125 not the '76-'78. I told him about the clean Porcupine head in the UK and he graciously took the time to explain the subtle differences between the two. Late that day when he returned to his shop he even texted me pictures to make sure I got it right. We BS'd on the phone about racing and building bikes and swapped a few stories. He passed on a few tips (A lot of which have been discussed here) and when I admitted I was not only building a bike that was race worthy, I was chasing parts to make it look good, he left me with this. His words...

"To me, vintage racers and us guys who like to build the bikes are like modern hot rodders. Making modifications to a bike for better suspension and a faster motor are one thing, but we all like to have a bike that looks good. The feeling you get when you are sitting in the pits and someone walking by, stops, looks at your bike and says , "now that is cool" makes all that hard work worth it." He concluded by telling me he loves seeing what people come up with and how much he enjoys seeing the bikes people build as an expression of themselves. I told him I looked forward to coming by his shop to pick up a pipe and check his shop out and he humbly said, "it isn't much of a shop, mostly just a garage with a few interesting projects tucked in the corners". If you have ever seen some of Dave's project bikes, you know what a humble statement that is. The guy is a true perfectionist and a legend.

Here's the info on the heads;

The '73-'75 head is narrower in width than a '76-'78 head by about 1/4 inch on both sides. From '73 to '78 they are all interchangeable, but you will either end up with a head that overhangs ('76-'78 head on a '73-'75) or a head that is too narrow ('73-75 head on a '76-'78). As far as FMF porcupine heads go there are two ways other than the width to tell the difference between a "73-"75 head and a "76-'78 head.

The '73-'75 head had fmf / fmf casted on to the bottom fin and most of them had one solid fin all the way around. By '76 Donny was scalloping the bottom fin on all of his heads and casting fmf on one side and his name "Emler" on the other. If you look up pictures of cr125's on the web, knowing the above, you will start to spot people who have the wrong head for the year bike.

I guess there could be some overlap of scalloping and solid bottom fin heads around between the two as well as the cast lettering I don't know, but the dead give away is the width. The '73-'75 is about 6 1/2 inches wide and the '76-'78 is a little over 7 inches wide. Both heads are about the same measurement in length, a little over 7 inches. I have never seen a solid bottom fin head that fir a '76, but there are lots of pictures out there of the scalloped "76-"78 porcupine head overhanging the barrel on a "73-"75 Elsinore.

Here are some good pictures depicting the above;

Yes, I know about Klemm. Gary of DG lives here in my town of Prescott. He has immense respect for Harry and told me he contributes a large portion of his success due to Harry's intellect and work ethic. Gary also told me some really funny stories about the early days of DG. One involved Gary, Harry, Donny Emler and the "mafia" in Vegas.

But that story would need it's own thread... 😳

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone helping me figure this whole vintage thing out. Still have a ways to go, but I managed to get a swingarm, pipe, some sweet factory bolts and a head. I wanted to post up some links and notes I wrote down from all the info everyone has been so gracious in providing to me. This is not, by far, a comprehensive list, nor can I vouch for it's 100% accuracy, but it should help others starting out from essentially a zero knowledge base like I did.
OEM Schematic / OEM Parts
Netherlands OEM parts & schematic
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cr125m2-elsinore-1976-usa_model585/partslis…

Builders / Parts
Honda trickery at it’s best. If you don’t see it ask. Stevie can do it!
https://www.phildentonengineering.com/

Dave Miller Concepts - Still makes Porcupine head and exhausts
https://www.facebook.com/Dave-Miller-Concepts-137383096290268/

https://www.redrocketparts.com/product-category/honda/cr/1974-78-125-el…

Motor Work
Teddy Boyko – knows his Elsinores and vintage bikes
https://boykoracing.com/

Mikuni 32mm carb kit w/boots
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-1976-Honda-CR125-Elsinore-New-Mikuni-32mm…

Mikuni 32mm / 34mm
https://www.amazon.com/Mikuni-Round-Slide-Carburetor-VM32-193/dp/B00SJW…

http://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/900029375

https://www.amazon.com/Mikuni-Round-Slide-Carburetor-VM34-168/dp/B000GV…

Exhaust
ProForm Exhaust PFR
https://www.vmxracing.com/1976-77-78-125-proform-pipe-build-in-silencer…

DG Pipe
http://www.dgperformance.com/dg-performance-models.php?category=Honda&m…

'74 Exhaust Flange
https://www.cmsnl.com/products/joint-exhaust_18351360700/#.XkypaiRlDDs

Exhaust Springs
https://www.dcvmx.com/xcart/product.php?productid=187247

https://www.dcvmx.com/xcart/product.php?productid=187677

Shocks / Suspension
Shock Length
14 ¼ to 14 ¾ max
Whatever you do don't go above 14 3/4" or the bike will feel tall in my opinion for the fork setup...unless of course you are going to sport some Simon or Marzocchi 9" travel fork$ on it!

Mike Crow. He left Race Tech to be on his own. Go to guy for vintage knowledge and set up
https://www.facebook.com/crowperformance/

Race tech – They have own shock line / does fork mods
https://racetech.com/page/title/G3S%20Dual%20Shocks

Worx Shocks (Used to be Works Performance)
http://www.worxshocks.com/
http://www.worxshocks.com/html/vintage.html
worxshocks@gmail.com

Ohlins Shock builder
https://www.propilotsuspension.com/index.php/vintage-mx/

http://www.vintageohlins.com

Fork Tubes
https://www.dcvmx.com/xcart/product.php?productid=187281&cat=1074&page=1

Refinishes Fork Leg lowers and clear powder coats - $125.00 can do triple clamps too
sandman800ss@hotmail.com

Decals
DG Pipe decal
https://www.fastguystuff.com/DG-Pipe-decal-sticker-p/fg-81.htm

DG Swingarm decal
https://www.fastguystuff.com/DG-swingarm-decal-set-Warren-Reid-p/fg-302…

Tank for ‘74
Non OEM Painted / has no paint version for $249.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183845486219

Fuel Petcock
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-1976-1977-1978-CR125-CR125M-Elsinore-Fue…

Side panels / Number plates
https://www.fastguystuff.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=FG-238
Number plate ovals
https://www.fastguystuff.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=FG-216

Oval number plate backing dimensions
9 7/8" horizontal x 7 15/16"

Side panel rubber straps
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/83503-400-000

Side panel / number plate brackets
https://www.redrocketparts.com/product/universal-bracket-replacement-fo…

Cables OEM and Non OEM
@ Rocky Mountain Throttle, Clutch, Front brake
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/0

Rear Brake cable non OEM
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/rear-brake-cable-cr125m

Rear brake cable reproduction best version?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Brake-Cable-Honda-CR125-CR125M-MT125-MR17…

https://www.amazon.com/VintCo-Brake-Cable-Honda-CR125/dp/B082MXQF19

Genuine Spoke set (pricey $285)
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/honda-cr125m-spoke-set

Kill switch
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/honda-push-button-kill-switch

https://www.speedandsport.com/index.php/parts/accessories/killbutton-ho…

Parts Misc

http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts?

https://www.vmxracing.com/HondaCR/1974-78-125-elsinore-mr175/

Chain guide
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CR125-CR250-1973-1974-CR125M-CR250M-Chai…

Reproduction ignition cover
https://www.dcvmx.com/xcart/product.php?productid=186878&cat=589&page=1

Seat
https://bikeseatfactory.com/Honda-1973-1974-1975-cr125-elsinore-motorcy…

https://bikeseatfactory.com/Honda-1973-1974-1975-cr125-elsinore-motorcy…

Buy plastic here - make sure it is same as VMX
https://amsracing.com/

Rear axle nut
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/honda-12mm-self-locking-axle-n…

Fuel tank collar?
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/cr125-cr250-fuel-tank-washer

Rear brake lever pin
http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/pin-b-brake-rod-joint

Handlebars Renthal - Jimmy Button
https://www.amazon.com/RENTHAL-HANDLEBAR-JIMMY-BUTTON-BLACK/dp/B002KOII…

Swing arms
http://www.klpracing.com/index.html
https://amsracing.com/product/1976-1978-honda-cr-125-thor-style

Foot pegs
https://amsracing.com/product/1974-1978-honda-cr-125
https://www.vmxracing.com/1974-78-cr125-wide-foot-pegs-set.html

Bolts
https://specbolt.com/honda-elsinore-1973-1987-cr-mr-mt-150pc-bolt-kit/

Works look - dished and flanged (Individual)
https://specbolt.com/nickel-wurks/

'76 bolt kits - engine
https://www.dcvmx.com/xcart/product.php?productid=19676&cat=&page=17

http://re-mx.com/honda-cr125-cr250-parts/cr125-stainless-allen-head

Bolts for rest of bike:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elsinore-Restoration-Bolt-Kit-CR-125-250…

ASV Levers
Front brake F4
https://asvinventions.com/f4-series-off-road-brake-lever-bdf405/#produc…

Clutch F4 Pro
https://asvinventions.com/f4-series-off-road-quad-pro-model-clutch-leve…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASV-F4-Series-Pro-Model-Clutch-Lever-Black-Sho…

Clutch F4 Regular perch (needs dust cover)
https://asvinventions.com/f4-series-off-road-quad-clutch-lever-cdf406sx…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASV-Inventions-F4-Series-Clutch-Lever-With-Sta…

F2 Brake
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASV-Inventions-F2-Series-Universal-Cable-Brake…

F2 Clutch (needs dust cover)
https://asvinventions.com/f2-series-off-road-clutch-lever-cdf206sx/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASV-F2-Black-Unbreakable-Folding-Front-Clutch-…

F2 & F4
https://asvinventions.com/dmsearch/?q=BDC605+BDF205-K+BDF405+CDC606PX+C…

Engine case paint
PJ1 Satin Black Engine and Crank Case Paint

https://www.jpcycles.com/product/910-637/pj1-satin-black-engine-and-cra…

PJ1 beautiful satin finish from a shaker can anybody can paint with this product and have a factory finish.. all you need to do is spend some time on your prep work...that is the key to a beautiful satin finish from a shaker can. The removal of old paint & lightly wetsand is a must... If you want a great finish pre-heat your oven to 150 degrese and place painted part in oven for (5) minutes with oven OFF.... remove painted part & let cool for (1) hour....

Forums
http://www.honda-elsinore.com/

http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi

Facebook Groups
Honda CR/Elsinore 2 Strokes
https://www.facebook.com/groups/120373764729960/

Honda Elsinore 73 -80 parts for sale trade or wanted
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1610731349016041/

Mark's Vintage Motocross Swapmeet
https://www.facebook.com/groups/168212026656009/

Pictures for reference
https://www.mecum.com/lots/LV0118-315112/1976-honda-cr125-fmf-racer/

Parts coming in...

Got a new lid to go with the bike too!

Tank and powder coating done. Special thanks to Alex "sandman" Callas. His attention to detail combined with his eye for returning my beat up, worn out old parts to the oem look is truly amazing!

His work is impeccable and he is such a nice guy to talk to. Lightning quick too! Couldn't ask for a better resin to work with.