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Doghouse- have you looked into the off road stuff at all?
The Shop
https://www.dirtrider.com/fun-times-at-rio-bravo-vintage-mx-2015
This track is still very much like it ever was in the 70's. It is still a dream to ride on a modern bike, and the jumps have no consequences, mostly flat landings. A dirt bike bucket list place.
1) promoters who are greedy by having thirty or forty classes in a day. I’m there to ride/race and have fun. Why the F would I pay MORE money than a practice day, just so I can sit around all day for two or four 10 minute motos?! I can go to an open practice and pay less money to ride virtually all day. No brained for me. I’m 40 years old, I’m going nowhere in the sport-racing? Been there done that. Raced 40 plus weekends a year from 92-2002. No thanks.
I will hit the one off races that are unique (vet/OTH, police and fire, etc.
2) The keep up with the joneses mentality mentioned before. It’s rwally gotten ridiculous.
3) The entitled brats living off mom and Dad who are only into MX as the cool thing to do. They seem less prevalent at practice days. They’re out of hand on race days.
So no, I don't know what it's like to sit in a comfy motor home. And I sure know how much work it takes.
15 guys to prep is absurd. And whatever track he rides that has that much downtime must be a piece of crap.
We don't stop racing until intermission, unless there's a rider down. Like most good tracks we're starting a class while the other is still finishing.
Cutting down to that few classes simply won't work. Since you said you own a track, post those classes for a race and see how many riders show up.
I've been riding, racing and promoting moto for many years.
I still love to ride mx, but there are issues for sure.
Tracks to dangerous, risk of injury, and days too long are just a few.
Eliminating classes would be great, but it's very hard to do. I know, we've tried.
There's no doubt offroad racing is growing here as well. It's not my cup of tea, I still enjoy the rush I get from mx.
But I do know a lot of guys who like to ride/race offroad. Some are former mx'ers. Some do both.
I agree, that the tracks need to be fun for everyone.
My favorite around here is LTM in Casey IL. The promoter works his ass off maintaining and improving the track. Actually it's Bomber built.
At 61, I can pretty much do everything on it. It's wide, fun and he treats the riders well. His pricing isn't cheap but it's fair. Plus, I'll always pay more for quality.
He gets great turnouts. 2 weekends ago he had over 150 riders for Sat practice and over 500 for the race on Sunday.
I think a lot of progress could be made by capping the number of classes at 15 and doing timed motos to ensure everyone who races at least an hour of track time per event (including practice). I think that is plenty of riding in one day at race speed. I just did three 10 lap motos in a row at the Club MX Practice Facility (whooped out, sandy, and rough) and was quite satisfied and done for the day!
That said, I do not see this happening! Having a bunch of classes is like motocross #metoo. I want a trophy too! I can't compete in the A/B/C classes but still want to win! Give me a trophy, and make the fast racers wait all day for an 8 minute moto! Me too!
250A
250B
250C
450A
450B
450C
Vet A
Vet B
Vet C
Beginner Big Bike
50
65
85
125/Super-mini
Mini Open (65-Super Mini)
*Also, "entitled brats living off Mom and Dad" is a big problem in society. The economy and several industries are being propped up by adult children who live at home who refuse to move out on their own. If all parents gave adult kids the boot, their disposable income would dry up and several industries would take a hit.
Those guys have been around forever. Always a great "mom and pop" feel, and helped out a shit ton of riders. They also put on a free private rental at Glen Helen once a month....no strings attached, just show up and they covered the bill.
Scary shit when we start seeing guys like this closing their doors
Pit Row
Trust me it's not promoter greed. I'd love to have less classes at our events. It would be easier on everyone for a number of reasons.
But most riders are not fit enough to do 10 laps. Hell I'm fit and I couldn't do 10 laps on rough track. That would be about a 20 to 25 minute moto. Although some could.
When I go to open ride days at my favorite track they split it into 15 minute sessions and a lot of riders don't do all of the laps for that.
The problem with eliminating classes as you suggest, is you have to give every rider the opportunity to run at least 2 classes. Not just some.
For instance in the class structure you suggest, good luck telling a 50cc parent that just spent over $4000 on a bike he only has 1 class to ride!
Plus as a 61 year old vet rider, I have no interest or business riding against 25 year olds. And it's not about the money, I'd love to see a full gate of over 55 riders. That would be a blast for me.
Unfortunately, there's a number of reasons the sport isn't growing as much as we'd like, many of them have been mentioned here. Some we can affect and some we can't.
Personally, my main bike is a Kawi 450, but I bought a used KTM SX125 to play around on. It's fun but I'll never give up my 4 stroke.
And as far as cost, that's not a big issue either imo. You can find new left overs in almost every brand at really good prices if you're on a budget.
But more importantly, I don't think the sport is dying out.
The last race I was at 2 weeks ago had over 500 entries. Although I realize that's not the norm.
As far as the safety debate on 2 strokes vs 4, that is a very complicated. Yes, the 4 strokes allow riders to push the speeds, therefore increasing impact when they crash. That makes sense as basic physics explains. However, 4 strokes are easier to ride, take less effort, and give you more traction. One could claim that they actually make crashes less likely. I guess one has to choose between several small crashes or a handful of bigger crashes. Now, before you go yelling "Big crashes cause severe injuries and small ones don't!", there are hundreds of factors in crashes other then just "big" or "small". And how do you really scale the crashes? I don't have the answer. All I know is I've seen horrible crashes on 2 and 4 strokes so I don't see a direct correlation with 4 strokes and injury causing crashes. Be awesome if vital or racerx or some big moto mag could go back and look at the number and severity of crashes yr by yr in 2 stroke era vs 4 stroke era. Giving us some real data to work with. That would be an awesome article IMO.
So please explain how 4 strokes are the problem again?
Agree with the new leftovers. You can get some good deals on last yrs model bikes. In fact that is true with almost everything you buy. Cars, trucks, tractors. My last 3 big purchases (My wifes car, my ninja, and my tractor) were all leftover models that in total saved me around $8k (mmmm maybe I deserve a new 450?).
Those numbers are awesome. Last couple races I went to around me had at most 150 riders. Practice days are pretty hit and miss for some reason. Sometimes I go and there is like 20 riders, other times there are around 60+, just depends on the weekend I guess.
Next: We are lucky to get 6 out of 40 guys to volunteer their time to help water and prep the week before (its all clay and is very dry here late in the season). The flat track is always pristine though ha.
After racing Casey on 3/4 I was really taken back with how well the place ran with all of the entries. I was the last moto of the day and got done just before sundown but didn't expect anything different with how many guys he had there. He has huge support from sponsors and the equipment to maintain the track. Galesburg MC does not.
Mxtech owns his own private track that is extremely fun to ride mostly all natural. He doesn't have races there, but he does have some good points in this thread. I think its the lack of man power that makes our days so long here locally. I also have a private track and know how hard it is to maintain with just a Kubota and no water truck.
Each round is run over 2 days. I'm going to race vets over 45's , c grade mx2 and c grade mx1.
Cost for entry based on last years cost...it may have gone up , is $120 for the first clas then an extra $ 80 per class thereafter. So my 4 weekends of racing will cost..just entry fees alone...no other costs brought into the equation..
$380 per race round times 4 rounds...soooo...$1,520 Australian dollars to run in 3 classes for 4 weekends of racing...
I could go to ride park at Baccus Marsh and ride as much as I want on the best track in the state with the best track prep you will ever find for $45 per day, so $90 per weekend or $360 for a shit load more track time than racing 4 weekends at the vics.
That's what most people are actually doing...I don't expect to find any more than 20 other riders on a gate with me in any class at the races..
It's lucky that I love to race more than just ride or common sense would prevail and I'd blow off racing completely and just get shit loads of track time in and save a fortune..
It is derived from the misnomer that a C, B, and to a lesser extent even an A class rider can't be competitive against 4 strokes on a 2 stroke...Common sense says that isn't even remotely true. In the C, and B classes (of which 90% of riders probably are) its probably 95% rider and like 5% bike...meaning its not the bike that's making them go slow.
The fact that "Johnny C class" incorrectly thinks he can't race on a 2 stroke and be competitive...doesn't mean its 4 strokes killing the sport...its ignorance, and keeping up with the jones's that's killing the sport more than the 4 strokes.
"Johnny C class" wants to have the "latest and greatest", and doesn't want to show up to the track with a bike that isn't perceived to be as cool as the one the guy pitted next to him is riding. So they don't race/ride because they can't afford the $10K 450, with the $1200 exhaust, $200 graphics, and $800 suspension...when the truth of the matter is that they wouldn't go any slower if they bought a 5 year old YZ250 for $3K, and put $2K into it to freshen it up...
PS: I own more two strokes than 4
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